This game is not setup to encourage or reward new players to stick around. Never mind the learning curve regarding playbooks and such. The recruiting actually sets up a hard roadblock to new players.

I have an established Div 2 team. When I and other established teams recruit, the top 24 players of each position are almost entirely Undecided. Sometimes $10 will turn them green. Which is why you see some teams needing 10 players end up with 30+ players green.

I just picked up a rebuild div 2 team to try some new things out. Recruiting starts today. I have bad vision, so I don't see the best players. I can live with that. The problem is out of all the top 25 players at each position , 95% of them have 3 sims on them. So no undecided players. I have 6k per scholarship to spend. It's going to take 15k+ to knock off 3 sims for a player. So best case scenario is I fill my roster with 4 low level players and 8 walkon sims.

It should be the opposite. Less talented recruits should be undecided. The top recruits that the best teams can see should not be undecided. They are the recruits that should have 3 sims on them. So yea you can see the best players but they aint free.

I know the next few seasons will be rough. Tougher recruiting than established coaches and I will lose a lot of games by 50+ points. How about a new player? Will he put up with that? Doesn't seem so.

I see this also. The difference in this game is that the D1AA top recruits are overlapped with the D1A mid to mediocre recruits. A slight tweak at the D1AA-DII overlap and at the DII-DIII overlap would make upper vision recruiting more challenging at DII and DIII. This would provide the outcome I think you are promoting to the newer players by making the better programs more competition for players.

"So best case scenario is I fill my roster with 4 low level players and 8 walkon sims."

I don't think I've ever seen such a bad result. Coaches ARE recruiting better than that. They are filling their rosters without sim signings. Better take a closer look.

"It's going to take 15k+ to knock off 3 sims for a player." Not within your 360 it isn't.

If our concern is for newbies, let's at least be honest with them in these forums.

I see where soups is going with this one. To take a long term SIM DII team and build them into something is a process. Your vision is tough the first few seasons and all players have simmy on them to start. Spud is right that if you stay close you can knock off the sims with maybe 5 visits or so. The players you get will let you complete and beat the sims pretty regular after a couple of seasons.

I took Wingate in Stagg six seasons ago. I’m in the same conference and division as soups really strong Carson Newman team. I’m winning 12-13 games a season but still only get a few undecided recruits each season. All the top recruits are undecided and still out of my vision. Getting to that 42 win mark is a massive plus in the recruiting process. Right now I’ve hit a ceiling where without getting those top players I’m not able to compete with the top teams.

I’m probably average at this game and my team is progressing. It’s got to be tough for someone who is new and doesn’t really understand how this game works. I’m six months invested with this team and can see us getting better but a newbie may only look at the record.

Posted by CoachSpud on 8/29/2024 9:46:00 PM (view original):
"So best case scenario is I fill my roster with 4 low level players and 8 walkon sims."

I don't think I've ever seen such a bad result. Coaches ARE recruiting better than that. They are filling their rosters without sim signings. Better take a closer look.

"It's going to take 15k+ to knock off 3 sims for a player." Not within your 360 it isn't.

If our concern is for newbies, let's at least be honest with them in these forums.

I know how much money it takes to knock off sims with a very good team. Which is about 9-15 CVs.

It's going to be much more expensive for a bad team with an A reputation and B- Loyalty. Fairly simple math.

You're also completely missing the point.

A bit of data for everyone’s benefit …
I only have a team in Warner so I don’t know what your worlds are like, but I did look for D2 rebuilds in Warner. There are four right now:
W Liberty, new coach (w/ 1 season at D3) on a 19-season sim
MN-Duluth, coach took an 18-season sim
Mines, 17 sim seasons in the last 18
Winona, 14 sim seasons in the last 15

Here's their recruiting results:
W Liberty, filled 2 schollies in 15 openings – that fits your description. However, as a beginner he signed 8/8 in his only season at D3.
Duluth, 13/13, 100% coach signings, no sim signings at all
Mines, 15/16 and 11/16, or 81% coach signings
Winona, 8/10, or 80% coach signings
I don’t know any of those coaches, nor what recruiting difficulties they may have faced. But clearly the data belies the assertion that “4 low level players and 8 walkon sims” is in any way a “best case scenario.”

I took a look at your example of a successful start to a rebuild at Duluth. I don't have to dig any deeper after looking at the QB he recruited.

The good news? Danny Norris was the 5th ranked QB recruited. The bad news? That was the Div 3 QB rankings. His ranking for div 2 was #102.
15 human teams in div 2. The recruiting rankings for the teams you listed are #129, #113, #78 and #144.

So I stand corrected. It is true, you can fill your div 2 roster with non-sims. As long as you are happy picking up a bunch of Undecided players that belong in div 3 you're golden.

... and again, still missing the point

One player? Really? One player to try to prove some sort of obscure point? Why even try to cherry-pick something like that?

You may have uncovered a good strategy there. To wit, "The recruiting rankings for the teams you listed are #129, #113, #78 and #144." You aren't going to get, nor should you try to get, a top 10 or top 20 recruit class in your first year of a rebuild. Recruits at this level are fungible; you shoot for players you can actually land. You stay close to home. You focus on getting players with high or very high potential. You fill your schollies and you save some money for future years when your vision is higher.

Or, do it your way and see how that works out for you. "I fill my roster with 4 low level players and 8 walkon sims." Honestly, though, that doesn't appeal to me.

There's more than one player. That's the first one I looked at. No cherry-picking involved.

... and news flash. This isn't about me. My team will end up just fine. This is about trying to retain new players. Not putting them through some kind of bootcamp where they are doomed to fail. The deck is stacked against them. There is a reason it's the same core of players with multiple teams across different worlds.

It doesn't have to be easy, but it should be sensible. New players having to recruit div 3 players, while an established coach can end up with a div 1 player after spending $150 for him. It needs re-tuning.

Name	POS	A	SPD	D	WE	ST	STR	BLK	TKL	H	GI	E	T	TOT
Luis Singleton	DB	26	72	45	49	26	32	17	50	27	46	33	32	455
Clarence Ladner	DB	33	63	51	68	51	43	11	51	37	40	51	38	537
Aaron Key	DL	48	29	28	46	48	69	25	74	16	57	34	27	501
Joshua Winston	LB	34	33	49	53	40	68	20	39	12	54	36	31	469
Glen Williams	OL	38	1	25	46	51	60	68	20	31	27	41	26	434
John Perez	OL	28	8	38	59	46	65	48	23	24	40	19	40	438
Paul Pierce	QB	23	17	54	63	41	53	22	23	10	51	39	18	414
Harold Harris	RB	25	58	42	43	28	41	43	22	66	48	65	54	535
John Young	TE	27	45	45	59	26	49	44	6	52	28	51	39	471
Mike Sears	WR	36	59	50	59	41	14	28	26	38	30	69	31	481

That was my first class at A&M Commerce rebuild in Stagg. Half the class is high-end DIII players. Went to the final 4 year 4 because I found the right high end D3 players.

Name	Pos	A	SPD	D	WE	ST	STR	BLK	TKL	H	GI	E	T	TOT
John Pierce	QB	19	38	54	35	65	40	47	12	15	42	28	39	434
Jerry Britton	RB	46	54	48	48	22	57	40	25	38	34	71	26	509
Jesse Lane	RB	44	50	49	46	46	64	38	12	36	20	58	55	518
Raymond Ford	RB	33	50	48	56	57	46	48	29	32	17	63	27	506
Joseph Butler	RB	13	64	57	65	49	46	28	32	44	48	49	28	523
Christopher Graves	OL	49	12	50	46	56	56	50	38	17	52	42	58	526
Randy Bender	OL	33	25	47	56	45	58	57	12	15	30	22	22	422
Jorge Anderson	LB	28	62	43	64	62	62	36	66	27	41	41	29	561
Tim Smith	LB	39	39	41	52	36	63	44	58	36	42	56	31	537
Ricardo Miller	LB	37	50	32	55	36	36	8	49	39	55	44	21	462
George Allison	DL	39	9	45	57	55	55	17	69	18	37	31	27	459
Fred Johnson	DB	25	68	54	50	44	69	33	62	28	45	69	40	587
Thomas Brandt	DB	33	63	44	54	43	27	23	31	10	44	50	47	469

Warner West Georgia rebuild. Another high end D3 class with the right players year 1. CC year 4, final 4 year 5.

A couple months ago I laid out exactly how to recruit D2/D3 as a rebuild or heading up a NC program. Follow the plan and you can have success like this. Can't be more beginner friendly than that.

I can't take a look at that because the new GD Reports doesn't go that far back. It's not surprising though that a long time coach can navigate the barriers of a rebuild.

I recall the post you made about recruiting at lower levels. It should be pinned to the top.

I totally agree with you soupy, I've been at this for a few years and I can recruit fairly well but still can't compete with the good coaches mostly because I haven't found the secret sauce with gameplanning.
Ricemt28 shared some helpful info and I think this is what was referenced:
https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=542684

Posted by Transwarp on 8/31/2024 10:38:00 AM (view original):
I totally agree with you soupy, I've been at this for a few years and I can recruit fairly well but still can't compete with the good coaches mostly because I haven't found the secret sauce with gameplanning.
Ricemt28 shared some helpful info and I think this is what was referenced:
https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=542684

It was a very good post. Should be the first thing a new player reads.