Posted by jcred5 on 1/28/2023 9:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 1/28/2023 6:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by robusk on 1/28/2023 6:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 1/28/2023 5:48:00 PM (view original):
I imagine this is the last time Luka goes in round 4.

Yeah I had a mid third round grade on him.

He'll have five seasons next Savage. He might be a 2nd if he keeps up what he's doing right now. Kind of got Harden without the defense (that was ******* weird to say) vibes.

I think there will be a handful of big movers based on what we're seeing in the NBA. Luka's D rating may hold him back slightly but that 60 TS% with that usage, reb and ast will be pretty appealing

Obviously Whiteside is butt... but Tatum being slightly above average seems correct to me. He is fine but the idea that he is a + defender is largely rejected outside of New England. Luka is certainly better than Harden though so that is a stupid reversal on their end. Weight + blocks + steals though.... that is largely what it is weighted on (+ height).

Posted by chewy3344 on 1/29/2023 7:59:00 AM (view original):
I have to commend everyone so far. People are doing a great job at valuing quality over quantity minutes, and there has been barely any “reaches” or picks that have you scratching your head. Also, this draft speed is incredible. Anything better than 1 round per day is amazing.
Lastly, because it looks like most teams are all drafting well, I predict that will will see the narrowest margin of victory this savage season which I am hoping has great parity.

The last two seasons have been crazy close. You are right that I think the trend continues. This has been a very quality draft so far, hard agree.

Posted by chewy3344 on 1/29/2023 7:59:00 AM (view original):
I have to commend everyone so far. People are doing a great job at valuing quality over quantity minutes, and there has been barely any “reaches” or picks that have you scratching your head. Also, this draft speed is incredible. Anything better than 1 round per day is amazing.
Lastly, because it looks like most teams are all drafting well, I predict that will will see the narrowest margin of victory this savage season which I am hoping has great parity.

0:58:36 average. 1 hour is always the goal so we are right on!

Posted by robusk on 1/29/2023 9:44:00 AM (view original):

Posted by jcred5 on 1/28/2023 9:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 1/28/2023 6:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by robusk on 1/28/2023 6:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 1/28/2023 5:48:00 PM (view original):
I imagine this is the last time Luka goes in round 4.

Yeah I had a mid third round grade on him.

He'll have five seasons next Savage. He might be a 2nd if he keeps up what he's doing right now. Kind of got Harden without the defense (that was ******* weird to say) vibes.

I think there will be a handful of big movers based on what we're seeing in the NBA. Luka's D rating may hold him back slightly but that 60 TS% with that usage, reb and ast will be pretty appealing

Obviously Whiteside is butt... but Tatum being slightly above average seems correct to me. He is fine but the idea that he is a + defender is largely rejected outside of New England. Luka is certainly better than Harden though so that is a stupid reversal on their end. Weight + blocks + steals though.... that is largely what it is weighted on (+ height).

I think Tatum is not elite but he's good. I wish they would factor in team defensive rating. Last year Boston was 1st in points allowed, FG% D. Smart got the 100 D for his award and Williams who played less than half the season was an 82. Tatum and Brown who played the majority of the minutes can't be 55 and 44 on a team that good defensively. Maybe they should consider some kind of bump for team defensive performance. I trust the stats more than I trust the people voting for all team defense.

Posted by jcred5 on 1/29/2023 10:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by robusk on 1/29/2023 9:44:00 AM (view original):

Posted by jcred5 on 1/28/2023 9:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 1/28/2023 6:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by robusk on 1/28/2023 6:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 1/28/2023 5:48:00 PM (view original):
I imagine this is the last time Luka goes in round 4.

Yeah I had a mid third round grade on him.

He'll have five seasons next Savage. He might be a 2nd if he keeps up what he's doing right now. Kind of got Harden without the defense (that was ******* weird to say) vibes.

I think there will be a handful of big movers based on what we're seeing in the NBA. Luka's D rating may hold him back slightly but that 60 TS% with that usage, reb and ast will be pretty appealing

Obviously Whiteside is butt... but Tatum being slightly above average seems correct to me. He is fine but the idea that he is a + defender is largely rejected outside of New England. Luka is certainly better than Harden though so that is a stupid reversal on their end. Weight + blocks + steals though.... that is largely what it is weighted on (+ height).

I think Tatum is not elite but he's good. I wish they would factor in team defensive rating. Last year Boston was 1st in points allowed, FG% D. Smart got the 100 D for his award and Williams who played less than half the season was an 82. Tatum and Brown who played the majority of the minutes can't be 55 and 44 on a team that good defensively. Maybe they should consider some kind of bump for team defensive performance. I trust the stats more than I trust the people voting for all team defense.

It’s too coaching dependent and creates a ton of noise imo. A good scheme + point of attack defenders + a good rim protector can hide a lot. Ja is a pretty minus defender but Grizzlies are #1 in team defense. Grayson Allen is awful but his team is 3rd. Tyler Herro is terrible and his team is 4th. Kevin Love is atrocious and his team is 2nd. Josh Hart is great and his team is 25th. Dorian Finney Smith is awesome and his team is 23rd. Miles Turner is one of the best defenders in the league and his team is 22nd.

The way they do it now is stupid. But I think team defense as a barometer isn’t much better.

My ideal is that they give us a few defensive schemes to choose from and then give players a few defensive ratings: point of attack, drop, switch, awareness. It’s obviously difficult to implement especially for older players but I have some ideas.

Posted by robusk on 1/29/2023 9:44:00 AM (view original):

Posted by jcred5 on 1/28/2023 9:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 1/28/2023 6:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by robusk on 1/28/2023 6:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 1/28/2023 5:48:00 PM (view original):
I imagine this is the last time Luka goes in round 4.

Yeah I had a mid third round grade on him.

He'll have five seasons next Savage. He might be a 2nd if he keeps up what he's doing right now. Kind of got Harden without the defense (that was ******* weird to say) vibes.

I think there will be a handful of big movers based on what we're seeing in the NBA. Luka's D rating may hold him back slightly but that 60 TS% with that usage, reb and ast will be pretty appealing

Obviously Whiteside is butt... but Tatum being slightly above average seems correct to me. He is fine but the idea that he is a + defender is largely rejected outside of New England. Luka is certainly better than Harden though so that is a stupid reversal on their end. Weight + blocks + steals though.... that is largely what it is weighted on (+ height).

I think with Harden there is an imperfect understanding of him as a defender. As an on-ball defender he is not ideal. He isn't Kyrie Irving brooding in Boston bad, but it wasn't a fun experience as a Rockets die hard. However, Harden as an off-ball defender or in the post was pretty sweet. He was, dare I say, elite as a guard in the post on defense.

You’d probably know better than me as a rockets fan but it always seemed harden was caught sleeping way to often to be considered a good off ball defender.

Posted by robusk on 1/29/2023 9:45:00 AM (view original):

Posted by chewy3344 on 1/29/2023 7:59:00 AM (view original):
I have to commend everyone so far. People are doing a great job at valuing quality over quantity minutes, and there has been barely any “reaches” or picks that have you scratching your head. Also, this draft speed is incredible. Anything better than 1 round per day is amazing.
Lastly, because it looks like most teams are all drafting well, I predict that will will see the narrowest margin of victory this savage season which I am hoping has great parity.

The last two seasons have been crazy close. You are right that I think the trend continues. This has been a very quality draft so far, hard agree.

This draft is definitely a professional production. A few of the key advantages end up coming down to one player being sniped by a spot or two, or falling by the same amount. Really amazing how tight some of the outcomes end up being. Opens up a bit after the first 4 rounds but still a mad race to find a corner, a focus, because you can’t be good at everything.

Posted by steelers821 on 1/29/2023 1:53:00 PM (view original):
You’d probably know better than me as a rockets fan but it always seemed harden was caught sleeping way to often to be considered a good off ball defender.

There is a millennia’s worth of video content dedicated solely to what a comically bad off ball defender he is.

Posted by robusk on 1/29/2023 10:35:00 AM (view original):
My ideal is that they give us a few defensive schemes to choose from and then give players a few defensive ratings: point of attack, drop, switch, awareness. It’s obviously difficult to implement especially for older players but I have some ideas.

Be curious to hear more. My team defense recommendation was that it's simple and outcome based, and I do think better but not perfect. Ja for example was 57 last year. I don't watch him a ton, but depending on how you value his hustle/effort it's directionally accurate. Then it would be starters get a plus 20 bump for the top rated defense, maybe 10 point bump for teams 2-5. Not something like the automatic 80 or 90 for the all defense.

Some of the lowest ratings have always made me want to find them on youtube for those i don't remember. Like Danny Fortson. He had a brief stint on the Celtics and I remember him being as bad as Antoine Walker, but a 17 is hilarious. Probably I was too busy screaming at Pitino to notice.

Posted by jcred5 on 1/30/2023 4:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by robusk on 1/29/2023 10:35:00 AM (view original):
My ideal is that they give us a few defensive schemes to choose from and then give players a few defensive ratings: point of attack, drop, switch, awareness. It’s obviously difficult to implement especially for older players but I have some ideas.

Be curious to hear more. My team defense recommendation was that it's simple and outcome based, and I do think better but not perfect. Ja for example was 57 last year. I don't watch him a ton, but depending on how you value his hustle/effort it's directionally accurate. Then it would be starters get a plus 20 bump for the top rated defense, maybe 10 point bump for teams 2-5. Not something like the automatic 80 or 90 for the all defense.

With modern stats like contest%, % allowed at the rim, isolation points per possession, etc. I think it is pretty plausible. Awareness is where I might take advantage of something like defensive +/-.

For older era's where it isn't possible, then you have to get creative. I think it is probably some combination of height, weight, points allowed relative to era, blocks, steals.. I think a reasonable formula could be worked up, I'd certainly be up for spending time on it. I think I would start by using the current era for which we have stats to support the desired outcomes, then use that as training data to model for a way to apply it to the older era using the more limited set of data. It wouldn't be perfect, there would certainly be anomalies, but it would be better than what we have now.

Posted by robusk on 1/31/2023 10:42:00 AM (view original):

Posted by jcred5 on 1/30/2023 4:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by robusk on 1/29/2023 10:35:00 AM (view original):
My ideal is that they give us a few defensive schemes to choose from and then give players a few defensive ratings: point of attack, drop, switch, awareness. It’s obviously difficult to implement especially for older players but I have some ideas.

Be curious to hear more. My team defense recommendation was that it's simple and outcome based, and I do think better but not perfect. Ja for example was 57 last year. I don't watch him a ton, but depending on how you value his hustle/effort it's directionally accurate. Then it would be starters get a plus 20 bump for the top rated defense, maybe 10 point bump for teams 2-5. Not something like the automatic 80 or 90 for the all defense.

With modern stats like contest%, % allowed at the rim, isolation points per possession, etc. I think it is pretty plausible. Awareness is where I might take advantage of something like defensive +/-.

For older era's where it isn't possible, then you have to get creative. I think it is probably some combination of height, weight, points allowed relative to era, blocks, steals.. I think a reasonable formula could be worked up, I'd certainly be up for spending time on it. I think I would start by using the current era for which we have stats to support the desired outcomes, then use that as training data to model for a way to apply it to the older era using the more limited set of data. It wouldn't be perfect, there would certainly be anomalies, but it would be better than what we have now.

So long as Kiki Vandeweghe and Kelly Tripucka don't end up becoming 60D players I'm all for it. LOL

Would be nice to see Zeke and Laimbeer, etc get boosts though. It’d be cool if either were playable in this format. Lots of legends don’t even come close to being good as-is