Posted by bruceleefan on 7/28/2022 9:57:00 AM (view original):
Doesn't matter how absurd you or I or anyone else thinks it is.

Point is, the government has no business regulating marriage at all.

I find it interesting that the ones most loudly railing against SSM are typically Christians who cite it as an abomination.

These folks will turn homosexuals away from their churches, and point to those very few verses as justification.

Meanwhile their church is filled with divorced adulterers, yet the admonition against divorce is so much more prevalent in the Bible.

Strange, no?

This is a Biblically correct answer, but it's not even necessary.

Slippery slope arguments are seldom logically sound. In this case, there's a clear bright line. The government can perfectly reasonably allow any two legally independent, consenting adults to get married and still not allow marriages involving children, animals, inanimate objects, or anything else that isn't a consenting adult with the legal right to enter into contracts independently.

The argument is virtually analogous to a devout Muslim arguing that sure, the government could allow companies to sell stocks to women, but then we'll have to sell stocks to any old rat, boulder, or cactus that wants to buy it because my religious text suggests that all those things have the same right to conduct economic transactions not directly related to the running of the household.

You have read the Bible really wanting to believe that homosexuality is proscribed to get that out of it. You have to read the Q'Ran really wanting to believe that women aren't supposed to be allowed financial independence to get that out of it. Unfortunately, a lot of people in both religions really want to reach those conclusions.

Posted by lostnfound74 on 7/28/2022 2:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 7/27/2022 5:21:00 PM (view original):
well, the declaration of independence does mention the pursuit of happiness. I would think being able to marry whomever you want would be considered the pursuit of happiness.

One guy married his Harley Davidson. Another guy married his DOG. Another guy married a man. Can you see how absurd this new age wokeism really is?

No?

How does any of that hurt you or anyone else? You think its ridiculous? then don't marry your harley davidson, your dog or another man. You think it's a sin, then don't be friendly with a guy who marries his HD, dog or another man. If it doesn't hurt anyone else, what is the big deal?

Posted by bruceleefan on 7/28/2022 9:57:00 AM (view original):
Doesn't matter how absurd you or I or anyone else thinks it is.

Point is, the government has no business regulating marriage at all.

I find it interesting that the ones most loudly railing against SSM are typically Christians who cite it as an abomination.

These folks will turn homosexuals away from their churches, and point to those very few verses as justification.

Meanwhile their church is filled with divorced adulterers, yet the admonition against divorce is so much more prevalent in the Bible.

Strange, no?

Yes, Bruce.
And it should be so simple and easy to understand that if we want to keep a true democratic republic we cannot have legislators making laws based on their religion and some are doing that explicitly.

Those people don’t know or refuse to follow the most basic and important tenants of the intended structure of our democracy.

Posted by dahsdebater on 7/28/2022 11:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bruceleefan on 7/28/2022 9:57:00 AM (view original):
Doesn't matter how absurd you or I or anyone else thinks it is.

Point is, the government has no business regulating marriage at all.

I find it interesting that the ones most loudly railing against SSM are typically Christians who cite it as an abomination.

These folks will turn homosexuals away from their churches, and point to those very few verses as justification.

Meanwhile their church is filled with divorced adulterers, yet the admonition against divorce is so much more prevalent in the Bible.

Strange, no?

This is a Biblically correct answer, but it's not even necessary.

Slippery slope arguments are seldom logically sound. In this case, there's a clear bright line. The government can perfectly reasonably allow any two legally independent, consenting adults to get married and still not allow marriages involving children, animals, inanimate objects, or anything else that isn't a consenting adult with the legal right to enter into contracts independently.

Yes - everything is subject to some types of regulation because we live in a society that wants reasonable oversight.
Blood tests before getting a marriage certificate and dissolution of assets based on length of marriage and other factors and rules governing when and how you can end a marriage with laws that favor the continuation of the marriage.

Posted by dahsdebater on 7/28/2022 11:46:00 AM (view original):
The argument is virtually analogous to a devout Muslim arguing that sure, the government could allow companies to sell stocks to women, but then we'll have to sell stocks to any old rat, boulder, or cactus that wants to buy it because my religious text suggests that all those things have the same right to conduct economic transactions not directly related to the running of the household.

You have read the Bible really wanting to believe that homosexuality is proscribed to get that out of it. You have to read the Q'Ran really wanting to believe that women aren't supposed to be allowed financial independence to get that out of it. Unfortunately, a lot of people in both religions really want to reach those conclusions.

IMO all 3 bibles have things in them that followers eventually turn a blind eye to. It is my opinion but I believe that is the only way toward peace between believers and non believers.

The hebrew bible is the oldest by 3000 years.
Somewhere along the way the vengeful God gave way to the Justice God and the stuff in Leviticus started to be ignored. Particularly when in countries that had comprehensive modern laws that would outlaw the stoning of gay people or people that stray
those prohibitions no longer could be considered perpetual laws and they became laws only for the early jewish culture. Interpretation began and the blind eye took hold.

The same for most christian’s in the world refusing to believe that good people don’t go to heaven.
Whatever some read in the bible is either ignored or interpreted differently.
Anecdotally I once had a piano teacher who was a nun living outside the convent. One day I asked her if I could go to heaven since I was jewish.
She said yes but I’m going to ask the priest.
She came back and said that the priest said yes.

People of religions eventually tune out or reject things that are anathema in a reasonable civilized secular society.

And we are living through that now with Islam.
Moslems around the world are rejecting the horror of some of the violent rules and discrimination against women. Progress is greater in some places more then others but it is definitely happening.

Posted by wylie715 on 7/28/2022 12:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by lostnfound74 on 7/28/2022 2:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 7/27/2022 5:21:00 PM (view original):
well, the declaration of independence does mention the pursuit of happiness. I would think being able to marry whomever you want would be considered the pursuit of happiness.

One guy married his Harley Davidson. Another guy married his DOG. Another guy married a man. Can you see how absurd this new age wokeism really is?

No?

How does any of that hurt you or anyone else? You think its ridiculous? then don't marry your harley davidson, your dog or another man. You think it's a sin, then don't be friendly with a guy who marries his HD, dog or another man. If it doesn't hurt anyone else, what is the big deal?

He doth protest too much.

And we are living through that now with Islam.

Moslems around the world are rejecting the horror of some of the violent rules and discrimination against women. Progress is greater in some places more then others but it is definitely happening.

Posted by bruceleefan on 7/28/2022 2:11:00 PM (view original):

And we are living through that now with Islam.

Moslems around the world are rejecting the horror of some of the violent rules and discrimination against women. Progress is greater in some places more then others but it is definitely happening.

Interesting fact about Mohammed and the spread of Islam.

For years Mohammed had very little success finding converts. It really wasn't until he started preaching Jihad that Islam gained traction.

I think that's a big part of the reason you still find so many hard core zealots.

I don’t know much about the history of Islam but it sounds very very true.
And makes perfect sense.
The hebrew God was made so powerful that it would scare some other peoples from attacking them.

Christianity was an alternative religion moving away from the jealous God and a more benevolent God acting as a peaceful loving deity.

BUT ultimately it was the notion that heaven was denied to nonbelievers softened up the Romans to join the growing cult and eventually lead it.
A threat in a religion that appeals to you can and still is to this day very powerful.

Islam as well catered to revenge and violent rule of law and violence toward non believers.

All 3 expanded based on violence to some extent.
Jewish civilization by the threat of a violent God.
Christianity by violent punishment for not believing.
The sending of a soul to hell or obliterating it is violent.
And Islam deals in physical violence and killing the body instead of the soul.

There is a thread in all 3.

Bruce - your post was really interesting and provocative.

To anyone reading my post…..of course it is just my opinion. I can’t say IMO every second.
Unless we are disputing ultimate facts these posts are my opinion and nothing more.

I saw a photo of Trump today. He has always had a well groomed look but today his head was like a pumpkin with red cheeks and beady eyes and white stringy hair. He looked a little strung out and his speech was very weak.

I think that the legal cases and investigations have gotten to him and the new people testifying - the Pence people and Mulveney and Pompeii and he should be worried about Eastman and his phone.

And to add insult - FOX news is untangling and cutting the umbilical cord….same for Murdoch newspapers.
The RNC actually told him that if he announced that he is running they cut off payments for his legal fees.

Maybe he and Melania should start running like Bonnie and Clyde.

Where does trump go after convictions.
Obviously he can’t go into a general population.
It would be too gut wrenching to put him in a solitary
prison cell.

It would have to be some type of home confinement or a facility. There are places convicts are sent to that are low security and have many amenities.
That’s where Michael Cohen went.
I can see that with trump being the only prisoner.
He can play cards with his detail.

The alternative is home confinement:
It should not be mara lago.
He should be confined in a modest house in some rural area with very few people.
He should not get a country club.

Trump was questioned by reports about the Saudi golf tournament. I never heard him devoid of confidence or voice.
He looked very unhealthy and spoke in a very low and weak voice.

He looks like he is mentally starting to get overwhelmed.

It is out that the DOJ is after him and many more people are giving testimony to the committee and or the DOJ including all of the top people working for
Pence.

Who is spilling the beans now?

I’m wondering why nothing has been said about the daily briefings. Trump would have been told about the violent and dangerous chatter DHS was following for several weeks before the attempted coup.

Hey LNF - are you interested in what’s inside those briefs?

I know that what I write is my opinion.
Everybody has a right to believe in the accuracy of their beliefs.
I have passion and I believe that we have a dumb and incapable electorate.
But i don’t insinuate that any american posters here are dumb.
Who is a person without passion but passion without hate and rancor.

It has been a pleasure that non sports has not seen the personal attacks by a few colossally mammoth types that have a passion called hate.

Some conspire while others aspire
some draw ire while others inspire
Some get mired while others do what is required
Some are born liars while others go higher.