How about you responding to the "birth control" method called the I.U.D.???

Legal or not?

The I.U.D. works AFTER "conception".

So, does life begin at "conception" or not?
And, if so, you gonna support a GOVERNMENT denying women the birth control choice of the I.U.D.?
When does a Government have the right to interfere with women's PERSONAL health choices and HER body??

I, say NEVER. Which is a conservative political opinion.
Governments should NOT have that kind of power over humans!
Where are the true conservatives??

I know, they're hiding.
Their Party of preference has been infiltrated and destroyed by racists and morons!

Bob, I understand your point but you’re looking at it backwards. If you follow a logical progression, there is no way to justify abortion. The ultimate right is the right to life. If you take that right from someone, all other rights are pointless. If I’m dead, free speech is kind of pointless to me. I guess, theoretically, the 5th amendment still applies to dead people.

Now for the logical progression. There is no scientific argument you can make that a fetus is not a human being. Just because it’s earlier in developmental stages than you are doesn’t make it less human. Since no logical or scientific argument can be made that the fetus is not a human, no one has the right to kill it. It has a right to life.

The argument for “women’s rights” doesn’t hold up because we are dealing with a separate human. Anyone who is being intellectually honest will agree that the right to kill another person doesn’t exist.

This is why you see pro-abortion advocates get so angry when they argue. People that have a well thought out, rational response don’t get angry when they debate. People get angry when they believe something, but can’t defend their beliefs. You see it with religion all the time.

Another way that you can tell that pro-abortion advocates don’t have a strong argument is that they always argue on the edge. Their first instinct is to go to the “rape and incest” argument. They use the less than 1% of cases in an attempt to defend the other 99+% of cases.

My point will be proven when Jetson responds with a hate-filled response that provides no actual rebuttal.

And furthermore, Bob. Outlawing abortion fits firmly within my view of the role of government. Governments primary job is to protect people from other people. Protecting an unborn baby from having sharp objects stabbed in its head by a doctor and it’s brains sucked into a sink is undoubtedly the role of government.

And the IUD?

Have to get back to you on that one. I wasn’t aware that an IUD works after conception. Assuming you’re right, I haven’t had time to think the new info through yet.

From my 30 second research, it appears that you are not accurate. The articles highest in my quick google search said that they are not abortifacients. They do not work after fertilization. Once again, 30 second research so you could probably easily prove me wrong and that’s fine.

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/29/2022 10:04:00 AM (view original):
Bob, I understand your point but you’re looking at it backwards. If you follow a logical progression, there is no way to justify abortion. The ultimate right is the right to life. If you take that right from someone, all other rights are pointless. If I’m dead, free speech is kind of pointless to me. I guess, theoretically, the 5th amendment still applies to dead people.

Now for the logical progression. There is no scientific argument you can make that a fetus is not a human being. Just because it’s earlier in developmental stages than you are doesn’t make it less human. Since no logical or scientific argument can be made that the fetus is not a human, no one has the right to kill it. It has a right to life.

The argument for “women’s rights” doesn’t hold up because we are dealing with a separate human. Anyone who is being intellectually honest will agree that the right to kill another person doesn’t exist.

This is why you see pro-abortion advocates get so angry when they argue. People that have a well thought out, rational response don’t get angry when they debate. People get angry when they believe something, but can’t defend their beliefs. You see it with religion all the time.

Another way that you can tell that pro-abortion advocates don’t have a strong argument is that they always argue on the edge. Their first instinct is to go to the “rape and incest” argument. They use the less than 1% of cases in an attempt to defend the other 99+% of cases.

My point will be proven when Jetson responds with a hate-filled response that provides no actual rebuttal.

you are afraid of people who won’t put up with pseudo intellectuals.
A fertilized egg is not a person.
Someone who wants to tell you that it is bases their opinion on a religious or philosophical reasoning.
Intellectually honest people will admit that.

And if you are going to use ridiculous “logic” to say it is then why stop at a fertilized egg.
Lets say that the parents of a fertilized egg are the sperm and the egg.
So let’s outlaw the dearth of sperm.

God does not create babies. People do.
Your opinion that an embryo is a human being with full rights is just a point of view.
And it is pernicious to force that which came first the chicken or the egg stuff on a woman who has the sole ownership of an embryo or fetus until that fetus has sufficiently grown into a baby in the womb.

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/29/2022 10:07:00 AM (view original):
And furthermore, Bob. Outlawing abortion fits firmly within my view of the role of government. Governments primary job is to protect people from other people. Protecting an unborn baby from having sharp objects stabbed in its head by a doctor and it’s brains sucked into a sink is undoubtedly the role of government.

I guess that you are describing late term abortion to justify outlawing all abortion.
What does the singular issue of the extremely rare instance of late term abortion have to do with this.

these people who want to outlaw abortion from fertilization on say it is a person and then they are off to the races.
There is no possibility to have the sensible approach of Roe when one side starts off saying that their opinion of what is a person should be held as infallible.

My understanding is that an IUD prevents a fertilized egg from implanting itself to the womb. Which means post conception.
But, as a man, I could very well be wrong on the issues of female reproductive health and planned childbirth and rearing.

Thus, why I maintain I should have NO SAY in your daughters reproductive decisions.

For the sake of my sanity and so that I can enjoy conversing with rational people who have a differing view than mine, I am going to block Dino (again under his new moniker).

Posted by laramiebob on 5/29/2022 4:10:00 PM (view original):
My understanding is that an IUD prevents a fertilized egg from implanting itself to the womb. Which means post conception.
But, as a man, I could very well be wrong on the issues of female reproductive health and planned childbirth and rearing.

Thus, why I maintain I should have NO SAY in your daughters reproductive decisions.

You are very well entitled to that belief, but I will disagree. I think because another life is involved and we are literally talking about life or death, everyone has a moral obligation to speak up. I liken it to if you saw a mother or father abusing their child, you should say something. It's not your child and I avoid at all costs giving parenting advice unless specifically asked, but I definitely would speak out if a parent were beating or starving their children.

No rational person would say "Well, I don't like it, but it's their choice how they want to raise their child" when it comes to a situation like that.

Also, I forgot to respond to part about the IUD. It appears that it prevents fertilization but I don't have the time or energy to actually do good research.

you can block me but it is because you know that I respect fairness and democratic values and freedom from religion in a no holds barred way.

I am very very rational which is what you are upset by.
I love hearing someone saying govt is to protect people from others talking about embryos and fetuses that still look like pigs while dismissing as “ illogical “ the democratic party’s stance on assault weapons.