The Baseball Hall of Fame new inductees announcement will be on MLB network today between the 1-5pm hour. Probably towards the end of the show.
Bonds and Clemens have picked up 2 votes in the public votes so if past is prologue they do not get in.

Announced at 6pm ET

Bonds and Clemens should be in. First, cheating has always been a part of baseball, from stealing signs, to scuffing the ball to greenies to steroids. How many of the stars and Hof members from the 60s and 70s do you think never took a greenie? I'd be willing to bet many of them did. That is a performance enhancing illegal drug too. nobody got punished for it. Second, in my opinion, even if Bonds and Clemens had never heard of steroids, they would have the statistics to be in the Hall.

Not all cheating is equal just like not all crimes are equal. I like many do not think that the greenie period was anything like the steroids era.
I don’t want to rehash the difference between restorative versus beyond normal capability but that is a major part of it.

Also so much of the steroid cheating was done while there was an attempt to stop it. It was cheating squared.

There are two schools of thinking and Im with this one.

Bonds and Clemens should be in

Posted by Jetson21 on 1/25/2022 3:17:00 PM (view original):
Not all cheating is equal just like not all crimes are equal. I like many do not think that the greenie period was anything like the steroids era.
I don’t want to rehash the difference between restorative versus beyond normal capability but that is a major part of it.

Also so much of the steroid cheating was done while there was an attempt to stop it. It was cheating squared.

There are two schools of thinking and Im with this one.

why does it matter? Both greenies and steroids are performance enhancing drugs. With steroids, you still need to work for them to have any effect, otherwise guys like Marvin Bernard, who did steroids, would not still suck. Greenies give you more energy whether you work or not. Also, MLB looked the other way for a large part of the steroid era because it was making them a ton of money. Once the public outcry became loud enough, all of the sudden MLB put on the appearance of trying to stop it.

Posted by wylie715 on 1/25/2022 4:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 1/25/2022 3:17:00 PM (view original):
Not all cheating is equal just like not all crimes are equal. I like many do not think that the greenie period was anything like the steroids era.
I don’t want to rehash the difference between restorative versus beyond normal capability but that is a major part of it.

Also so much of the steroid cheating was done while there was an attempt to stop it. It was cheating squared.

There are two schools of thinking and Im with this one.

why does it matter? Both greenies and steroids are performance enhancing drugs. With steroids, you still need to work for them to have any effect, otherwise guys like Marvin Bernard, who did steroids, would not still suck. Greenies give you more energy whether you work or not. Also, MLB looked the other way for a large part of the steroid era because it was making them a ton of money. Once the public outcry became loud enough, all of the sudden MLB put on the appearance of trying to stop it.

Wylie, i get what you are saying but greenies were basically amphetamines to get them through night games in an era with poorer nutrition and fitness training and more trains and more day games after night games. And the greenies gave them the energy to compete at their normal peak... it made them feel very alert but it did not enhance their physical abilities especially beyond their own natural capability nor give them greater healing power and recovery time.

Many people think it is 2 different eras and 2 very different drugs. With greenies a moderately good player would not be better but maybe a smidgen if he was but the steroids and anabolics were super spinach for people like Sosa and turned Bonds into something he never was before. Clemens would have mediocre for 7 or so seasons without it.

Also greenies were for one game at a time and did not extend careers. When you lost it you lost it.

A horse of a different color.

This is the Hall of Fame - It is transcendent.


David Ortiz gets in and thats it for the 2022 writers ballot.

Wasn't he named in the 2003 roid report? HYPOCRISY!!!

Posted by kermit on 1/25/2022 7:16:00 PM (view original):
Wasn't he named in the 2003 roid report? HYPOCRISY!!!

Never explained. Could have been stuff sold in stores.
From 2004 he was tested yearly and 2004 was his first great season and his body and face was not that of a steroids user. He had almost total consistency except for one off season from 2004 -2016 during the years of strict testing.

I'm very anti roid guys getting in.
I'm a baseball purest and really a stat geek.

The 50 HR club used to be a very elite club.

When Cecil Fielder smacked 51 in 1990 that was only the 18th time the feat had been accomplished in the 70 seasons since Ruth formed the club in 1920.
Only three times had more than 1 player reached the milestone in the same season. Also, only three times was the feat accomplished in successive seasons (Ruth in 20 and 21, then again in 27 and 28 and finally Mays and Mantle 55 and 56).


The steroid era produced the next 18 instances in only 8 seasons. 8 seasons in a row someone accomplished this once revered and magical milestone, 6 of which had multiple instances. 1998 and 2001 each had 4 players reaching that mark.
It became laughable.

Also, and I may be wrong here, but I feel pretty strongly that Ken Griffey Jr. was not a roider.
When he hit 56 in back to back seasons (97 & 98), it should have been the greatest accomplishment in modern baseball. He should have become the 1st player to hit 50 in back to back seasons in 70 years and the only person to join Ruth with this amazing feat.
Instead he was overshadowed by Sosa and McGwire as he finished 2nd in 97 and 3rd in 98.

It truly is an injustice and made a mockery of the game.

Posted by bruceleefan on 1/25/2022 8:04:00 PM (view original):
I'm very anti roid guys getting in.
I'm a baseball purest and really a stat geek.

The 50 HR club used to be a very elite club.

When Cecil Fielder smacked 51 in 1990 that was only the 18th time the feat had been accomplished in the 70 seasons since Ruth formed the club in 1920.
Only three times had more than 1 player reached the milestone in the same season. Also, only three times was the feat accomplished in successive seasons (Ruth in 20 and 21, then again in 27 and 28 and finally Mays and Mantle 55 and 56).


The steroid era produced the next 18 instances in only 8 seasons. 8 seasons in a row someone accomplished this once revered and magical milestone, 6 of which had multiple instances. 1998 and 2001 each had 4 players reaching that mark.
It became laughable.

Also, and I may be wrong here, but I feel pretty strongly that Ken Griffey Jr. was not a roider.
When he hit 56 in back to back seasons (97 & 98), it should have been the greatest accomplishment in modern baseball. He should have become the 1st player to hit 50 in back to back seasons in 70 years and the only person to join Ruth with this amazing feat.
Instead he was overshadowed by Sosa and McGwire as he finished 2nd in 97 and 3rd in 98.

It truly is an injustice and made a mockery of the game.

I could not agree more and absolutely no one thinks that Griffey was a user. He was squeaky clean.

No hollow heroes in the hallowed hall.

Posted by Jetson21 on 1/25/2022 4:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 1/25/2022 4:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jetson21 on 1/25/2022 3:17:00 PM (view original):
Not all cheating is equal just like not all crimes are equal. I like many do not think that the greenie period was anything like the steroids era.
I don’t want to rehash the difference between restorative versus beyond normal capability but that is a major part of it.

Also so much of the steroid cheating was done while there was an attempt to stop it. It was cheating squared.

There are two schools of thinking and Im with this one.

why does it matter? Both greenies and steroids are performance enhancing drugs. With steroids, you still need to work for them to have any effect, otherwise guys like Marvin Bernard, who did steroids, would not still suck. Greenies give you more energy whether you work or not. Also, MLB looked the other way for a large part of the steroid era because it was making them a ton of money. Once the public outcry became loud enough, all of the sudden MLB put on the appearance of trying to stop it.

Wylie, i get what you are saying but greenies were basically amphetamines to get them through night games in an era with poorer nutrition and fitness training and more trains and more day games after night games. And the greenies gave them the energy to compete at their normal peak... it made them feel very alert but it did not enhance their physical abilities especially beyond their own natural capability nor give them greater healing power and recovery time.

Many people think it is 2 different eras and 2 very different drugs. With greenies a moderately good player would not be better but maybe a smidgen if he was but the steroids and anabolics were super spinach for people like Sosa and turned Bonds into something he never was before. Clemens would have mediocre for 7 or so seasons without it.

how could you possibly know what Clemens would have been like without roids? You can't. I really have no problem with people who are dead set against the roiders being in the Hall, but then none of them should be there. Ortiz' name was on a list users. How it got there is besides the point. If Bonds (who actually never tested positive for roids. He supposedly did test positive for amphetamines in 2006, but as you pointed out, that is not the same as steroids) doesn't get in because he supposedly took steroids (and I am not denying that he did, but he never tested positive) than neither should Ortiz. For that matter, Clemens never tested positive either. You can't have it both ways. Either no steroid users get in, or the worthy ones do.

My problem with roids vs greenies is that many players from that era look down on the steroid users (Talking to you, Joe Morgan) when I would not be at all surprised if they didn't use what was available at the time, in the 60s and 70s. Who knows if they would have tken steroids back then if they had been as readily available as greenies.

Posted by Jetson21 on 1/25/2022 10:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bruceleefan on 1/25/2022 8:04:00 PM (view original):
I'm very anti roid guys getting in.
I'm a baseball purest and really a stat geek.

The 50 HR club used to be a very elite club.

When Cecil Fielder smacked 51 in 1990 that was only the 18th time the feat had been accomplished in the 70 seasons since Ruth formed the club in 1920.
Only three times had more than 1 player reached the milestone in the same season. Also, only three times was the feat accomplished in successive seasons (Ruth in 20 and 21, then again in 27 and 28 and finally Mays and Mantle 55 and 56).


The steroid era produced the next 18 instances in only 8 seasons. 8 seasons in a row someone accomplished this once revered and magical milestone, 6 of which had multiple instances. 1998 and 2001 each had 4 players reaching that mark.
It became laughable.

Also, and I may be wrong here, but I feel pretty strongly that Ken Griffey Jr. was not a roider.
When he hit 56 in back to back seasons (97 & 98), it should have been the greatest accomplishment in modern baseball. He should have become the 1st player to hit 50 in back to back seasons in 70 years and the only person to join Ruth with this amazing feat.
Instead he was overshadowed by Sosa and McGwire as he finished 2nd in 97 and 3rd in 98.

It truly is an injustice and made a mockery of the game.

I could not agree more and absolutely no one thinks that Griffey was a user. He was squeaky clean.

No hollow heroes in the hallowed hall.

I doubt Griffey was a user, but who really knows besides him?
By hollow heroes do you mean guys like Ortiz? Piazza? Bagwell, Ivan Rodriguez? They've all had steroid rumors about them but they are in the HOF