This looks more reasonable. My first impression was that it is a tad lenient. However the number of elite jobs that would have opened up is reasonable, so it seems that the desired effect will be achieved. I especially support the idea of a team's prestige moving toward baseline when a new coach takes over. That will help new coaches taking over a team that has been run into the ground.

I want to say thanks to the developers for listening to customers and coming up with a better solution. I can't see any reasonble person saying that these standards are unreasonbly high. I don't think competent coaches have anything to worry about under this system.

Happy to see the user feedback was considered in making these changes. Much, much better especially adding the initial grace period for a new coach. It's not easy to take over a D or even a C prestige team in a full power 5 conference and make much noise in those first several years. Thanks to the game admins!

waive the four application job limit for any fired coach - try until you get a gig - and lets do this

The difference between the top schools, and the bottom of the barrel is so vast that it's unrealistic... You can't possibly even sneak into the NT with a low tier school without playing D2 with Sims for the first 6 seasons

152	camelspider	33-1	13-0	13-0	7-1	16-0	3	5	37	B+	Conf Champion CT Champion NT (Final Four)
151	camelspider	25-6	14-1	7-4	4-1	14-2		43	114	B	CT Champion NT (2nd Round)
150	camelspider	21-9	10-3	8-5	3-1	14-2		47	60	B	CT Champion NT (1st Round)
149	camelspider	24-8	12-2	8-4	4-2	16-0		36	51	B-	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (Sweet 16)
148	camelspider	25-5	13-2	9-2	3-1	15-1		40	93	C+	Conf Champion CT Champion NT (1st Round)
147	camelspider	22-8	11-3	9-4	2-1	13-3		105	232	C	PI (1st Round)
146	camelspider	19-10	8-6	9-3	2-1	11-5		128	235	C
145	camelspider	22-8	11-2	8-5	3-1	12-4		81	176	C	CT Champion NT (1st Round)
144	Sim AI	13-15	6-7	6-7	1-1	10-6		183	193	D+
143	Sim AI	17-10	9-4	8-5	0-1	10-6		117	180	D+
142	Sim AI	15-12	8-5	7-6	0-1	7-9		210	311	C-

I took Robert Morris to the National Tournament in my first season, to the Sweet 16 four times, and got them to 33-1 and the Final Four in Tarkanian. I'm terrible at gameplanning but I did a decent enough job at recruiting. If you can't get to the NT in seven seasons you're not doing a great job of coaching your team. I'll admit, I was not doing a good job coaching at Penn State and that's why I let it go.

Posted by mamxet on 7/20/2021 7:38:00 PM (view original):
waive the four application job limit for any fired coach - try until you get a gig - and lets do this

Agreed! Let's do this and get things rolling! Excited to get this started and underway.

I think this is pretty reasonable, but still could be tough on some Tier 1 rebuilds. I took over this Kansas team with :

113	ldjvjr	2-25	2-11	0-13	0-1	1-15		302	130	B-
112	ldjvjr	23-10	11-4	10-4	2-2	8-8		47	52	B	PI (Championship Game)
111	ldjvjr	19-11	9-5	9-5	1-1	7-9		112	176	C+	PI (2nd Round)
110	ldjvjr	6-22	3-10	2-11	1-1	5-11		201	47	C+
109	doubleu_b	6-21	4-9	2-11	0-1	4-12		232	69	C+
108	doubleu_b	2-25	0-14	2-10	0-1	1-15		274	92	C+
107	Sim AI	2-25	1-13	1-11	0-1	2-14		299	126	B-
106	Sim AI	7-20	5-8	2-11	0-1	3-13		245	133	B+
105	Chew64	5-22	3-11	2-10	0-1	3-13		141	3	A

...and would have been fired in year 7 despite decent improvements:

120	wronoj	19-10	6-3	12-5	1-2	10-6		47	57	A-	NT At-large Bid NT (1st Round)
119	wronoj	22-7	9-1	12-4	1-2	12-4		31	75	B+	Conf Champion NT At-large Bid NT (1st Round)
118	wronoj	19-11	7-4	11-6	1-1	9-7		53	56	B+	PI (2nd Round)
117	wronoj	19-14	4-6	13-6	2-2	8-8		76	80	B	PI (Championship Game)
116	wronoj	20-11	9-2	10-8	1-1	10-6		50	63	B-	PI (3rd Round)
115	wronoj	11-16	3-5	8-10	0-1	6-10		143	133	C+
114	wronoj	8-19	3-10	5-8	0-1	4-12		212	122	B-

Year 8 (another NT1) would have saved my job, had it not been too late. In real life, yes, this KU coach would be fired. But that's not where we are here...

i kinda agree, that its still potentially a little tricky for new coaches in some situations. however, i think that is mostly with the top jobs and i generally think that is a reasonable place to have a little bit of fire under the new coach.

more of the requirements feel light to me, than feel hard, so i think in general lightening them even further would be a mistake. the ones that feel tight to me are the new jobs, the coaches who have been there a while, feel easy - so if they were going to tweak it to re-balance on that axis, i would be supportive of it. i don't think its necessary though, i think they did a good job with their 2nd proposal here, so really either way i am supportive of it.

I think the new system is a vast improvement over the previous proposal, and I think it's more or less fair. Actually might have slightly changed how I coached/recruited if the standards had been in place, with more emphasis on JuCos and transfers to get a little bit better more quickly, instead of switching systems and trying to build from the ground up.

I was simply saying it's not always super easy to make those standards, and it's certainly gotten harder since I started at Kansas due to the new hiring rules opening up tons of jobs to coaches-- the Big 12 is full now, and likely will be going forward. Definitely more battles at all times now, and if that had started with C+ prestige, it would have been that much harder.

agree 100%, they definitely aren't too easy for new coaches.

if site staff checks back in, can we get an update on the louisville situation - why are they not on the tier lists, and will that be changing?

I was critical before, but this is a much better approach. Thank you for reconsidering.

one of the best ways to convince folks who have dropped out of a world to come back would be promote across worlds high baseline prestige jobs.

I wonder whether WIS could should create a forum in which Power conference firings or openings generally are reported across worlds? if someone is out of world X but their dream school is suddenly available - might get them back

Posted by mamxet on 8/2/2021 6:54:00 AM (view original):
one of the best ways to convince folks who have dropped out of a world to come back would be promote across worlds high baseline prestige jobs.

I wonder whether WIS could should create a forum in which Power conference firings or openings generally are reported across worlds? if someone is out of world X but their dream school is suddenly available - might get them back

That’s a really good idea. In fact, if this existed NOW, as people naturally move themselves out of power conference jobs when they get too full or too competitive, or whatever, I suspect we’d already be seeing some returns.

I still don’t agree with the entire premise behind his project and think it should be tabled if the idea is to encourage continued growth; but this version is definitely better than the first proposal, if firings must be done.

But then shouldnt the contrary be done where what if you dont qualify in a world? Meaning that lets say in Wooden you have very good success and win a title, but in Iba you struggle more and get fired from a big 6 school. Which set of historical performance takes precendence? What if you coach the same school in 2 worlds but different results? Cross World Pollination is good in concept but I could see more issues coming up than intended

Posted by pnedwek on 8/4/2021 11:08:00 AM (view original):
But then shouldnt the contrary be done where what if you dont qualify in a world? Meaning that lets say in Wooden you have very good success and win a title, but in Iba you struggle more and get fired from a big 6 school. Which set of historical performance takes precendence? What if you coach the same school in 2 worlds but different results? Cross World Pollination is good in concept but I could see more issues coming up than intended

I’m looking at it more like just information, not necessarily making anyone qualified for jobs across worlds. That was proposed before, but that was before requirements were relaxed, so I don’t think that’s really a good idea anymore.

But let’s say hypothetically I was interested in resurrecting my retired alt ID in Allen and Wooden, where I am qualified for D1 jobs, but where I’ve never played under “shoe3”. If there was a place for me to see what is open (or maybe even who is “on the hot seat,” which would be another good way to implement the firing change, if it had to be done) throughout the year, that might encourage me to get back in.

Posted by mamxet on 8/2/2021 6:54:00 AM (view original):
one of the best ways to convince folks who have dropped out of a world to come back would be promote across worlds high baseline prestige jobs.

I wonder whether WIS could should create a forum in which Power conference firings or openings generally are reported across worlds? if someone is out of world X but their dream school is suddenly available - might get them back

No. Be careful what you wish for. In GD it is widely viewed as a giant problem that coaches who have been out of the game for some time are coming back and taking teams from qualified coaches who are currently playing the game. It looks like the devs are going to have to address this by making the retained experience value degrade much more rapidly for inactive seasons. There doesn't seem to be much sense to adopt something in HD that is already a known problem in GD.