Posted by laramiebob on 1/3/2021 8:19:00 AM (view original):
Many "believers" have arrested development. They CHOSE to reject any knowledge that shakes their preconceived tiny world. They refuse to GROW.
They prefer ignorance in their Lord. Trouble is the Lord despises ignorance. And religions! The Lord loves PEOPLE/individual people. Not institutions.

Posted by laramiebob on 1/3/2021 11:02:00 AM (view original):
Here's the bottom line. (for me anyways). Christians like to claim this Country was founded by/based on Christianity. They're right AND wrong about that.

WE ARE a Country founded (largely) by Christian believers BUT they expressly formed and instituted within their original Laws a secular Country.
Many Christians just can't handle the truth!

Posted by dino27 on 1/3/2021 12:06:00 PM (view original):
Biden is a leading example being very religious with religious pda while a shining proponent of a secular society that values diversity of religion and philosophy.
not just tolerant but welcoming diversity.
actual belief in the values of democracy.

Biden calls on a "palmist" and not a "Psalmist" to heal the US

Posted by laramiebob on 1/3/2021 11:02:00 AM (view original):
Here's the bottom line. (for me anyways). Christians like to claim this Country was founded by/based on Christianity. They're right AND wrong about that.

WE ARE a Country founded (largely) by Christian believers BUT they expressly formed and instituted within their original Laws a secular Country.
Many Christians just can't handle the truth!

Posted by dahsdebater on 1/4/2021 12:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 1/3/2021 11:02:00 AM (view original):
Here's the bottom line. (for me anyways). Christians like to claim this Country was founded by/based on Christianity. They're right AND wrong about that.

WE ARE a Country founded (largely) by Christian believers BUT they expressly formed and instituted within their original Laws a secular Country.
Many Christians just can't handle the truth!

This isn't really true. The founding fathers by and large envisioned a Christian country. Many of them intended secularity only inasmuch as it implied nondenominational Christianity. Notwithstanding what John Adams approved in the Treaty of Tripoli, the private writings of most of the founders (conspicuously not including Franklin and Madison, who were strong opponents of state-sponsored religion) indicate strongly that they intended the country to be based upon Christian ideals. It's worth noting that while the 1st Amendment prohibited Federal establishment of religion, states were allowed to and did have established state-funded religion well into the 19th century. And Congress immediately hired a Christian minister to provide moral guidance.

John Adams primarily authored the Massachusetts Constitutions, which says something along the lines of religion being necessary to good governance. Patrick Henry, Richard Henry Lee, and George Washington supported a bill - it was Henry's bill - to institute state funding for churches in Virginia in the 1780s. And while Jefferson offered his own bill opposing the establishment of religion in the state of Virginia - the bill which won out over Henry's - it was based upon the fact that God had created man with free will, and thus still presupposes a creating God.

I think it's fair to say that while the founding fathers as a group rather homogeneously opposed forcing the practice of religion on individuals, the healthy majority absolutely did support the adherence to Christian ideals as a core principle of good governance.

Posted by laramiebob on 1/4/2021 2:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dahsdebater on 1/4/2021 12:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 1/3/2021 11:02:00 AM (view original):
Here's the bottom line. (for me anyways). Christians like to claim this Country was founded by/based on Christianity. They're right AND wrong about that.

WE ARE a Country founded (largely) by Christian believers BUT they expressly formed and instituted within their original Laws a secular Country.
Many Christians just can't handle the truth!

This isn't really true. The founding fathers by and large envisioned a Christian country. Many of them intended secularity only inasmuch as it implied nondenominational Christianity. Notwithstanding what John Adams approved in the Treaty of Tripoli, the private writings of most of the founders (conspicuously not including Franklin and Madison, who were strong opponents of state-sponsored religion) indicate strongly that they intended the country to be based upon Christian ideals. It's worth noting that while the 1st Amendment prohibited Federal establishment of religion, states were allowed to and did have established state-funded religion well into the 19th century. And Congress immediately hired a Christian minister to provide moral guidance.

John Adams primarily authored the Massachusetts Constitutions, which says something along the lines of religion being necessary to good governance. Patrick Henry, Richard Henry Lee, and George Washington supported a bill - it was Henry's bill - to institute state funding for churches in Virginia in the 1780s. And while Jefferson offered his own bill opposing the establishment of religion in the state of Virginia - the bill which won out over Henry's - it was based upon the fact that God had created man with free will, and thus still presupposes a creating God.

I think it's fair to say that while the founding fathers as a group rather homogeneously opposed forcing the practice of religion on individuals, the healthy majority absolutely did support the adherence to Christian ideals as a core principle of good governance.

I take no issue with this viewpoint of our beginnings as a Government. I made no reference to the INTENT of the founders, however..........just what they enshrined into Law. The words they (Madison, mostly?) drafted have significant meaning. They became what we now have. The Constitution. (It took them many years (12?) to actually draft and adopt them). That Law (as presently interpreted) has resulted in a multitude of "beliefs/believers" (and NON believers) all having the right to practice their religion freely (supposedly) without (expressly without Federal) favor or malice.

I have no idea (for sure) their collective "intent" and have no doubt that the majority "envisioned" some kind of majority Christian Nation. But that wasn't what they gave us!! Not enough of a scholar to speculate why that is..........maybe it has something to do with the influence of the Seven Nations Laws that were favored by some and even somewhat incorporated (at least the concepts) into the eventual Document. Our Native American Brothers tended to be a little more tolerant of differing religious views than the white-eyes at the time.