just4me, thanks for posting this - very helpful.

One clarification...I am 99.999% sure that a platoon adjustment is made when it favors the batter...see slide 19 of the Bessire presentation...The final result shown is .2614, based on Babe having the platoon advantage.

In other words, when the batter has the platoon advantage, a 4.5% increase is applied at the "hit" calculation.
I assume - though I cannot confirm - that when the pitcher has the advantage, a 4.5% decrease is applied.
I also believe - though I cannot confirm - that switch hitters ALWAYS get the 4.5% increase.

Posted by contrarian23 on 9/12/2020 2:55:00 PM (view original):
just4me, thanks for posting this - very helpful.

One clarification...I am 99.999% sure that a platoon adjustment is made when it favors the batter...see slide 19 of the Bessire presentation...The final result shown is .2614, based on Babe having the platoon advantage.

In other words, when the batter has the platoon advantage, a 4.5% increase is applied at the "hit" calculation.
I assume - though I cannot confirm - that when the pitcher has the advantage, a 4.5% decrease is applied.
I also believe - though I cannot confirm - that switch hitters ALWAYS get the 4.5% increase.

Based on the slides, I believe that is correct... that "outputs" presentation has good data and I'm glad I found it because I didn't even remember that one existing and when you search online, only the "inputs" presentation comes up.

I don't remember if it came from site staff or the work of a user, but I recall reading that switch hitters are always neutral. They have no platoon adjustments.

Posted by skunk206 on 9/12/2020 9:48:00 PM (view original):
I don't remember if it came from site staff or the work of a user, but I recall reading that switch hitters are always neutral. They have no platoon adjustments.

I don’t remember where I read it, but I remember something similar. The “bonus” for switch hitters is they’re even no matter who’s pitching.

Posted by skunk206 on 9/12/2020 9:48:00 PM (view original):
I don't remember if it came from site staff or the work of a user, but I recall reading that switch hitters are always neutral. They have no platoon adjustments.

I also recall that and had a conversation in another thread with Contrarian to that point, but these slides seem to indicate otherwise. The input/output math shows a handedness modifier ADDED to the hitter side when they have handedness advantage as opposed to a modifier added to pitcher or subtracted from hitter.

I also recall that conversation (actually thinking it can from one of the developer Q&A sessions and a question from JohnGPF) indicating a 5% modifier and these slides show 4.5%. I don’t know if the earlier conversation was just trying to simplify the process for easy understanding or if was the way it was and got changed later (don’t recall if it was pre-2009 / maybe pre-2007ish update)... or if maybe these slides give an example and showed the bonus for easy demonstration.

that said, this is the closest thing to the workings of the sim we have from admin and it is showing it different than it was explained for sure.

Biggest thing I saw was the clear description on how Ballpark modifiers work. It’s clear that 1B modifier affects ALL hits, not just singles. Anecdotal data showed it, but it’s nice to see the proof in the pudding as well.

Let's ask seble...

good call, you got it or want me to?

I sent in a ticket

I don't remember seeing that. As far as I know, the singles multiplier determines whether or not it is a hit. After that, the other multipliers determine if it is a single, double, triple, etc.

Posted by d_rock97 on 9/13/2020 11:22:00 PM (view original):
They’ve said recently that the singles multiplier only affect singles, and it’s the park factor that affects all hits

Park factor isn’t used. It’s informative about the run scoring environment. It can help give an idea of the distribution of the park effects across ballparks with similar ratings. But has no function in the sim.

ozomatli sent in a ticket asking for clarification and posted the response in the Exploring Ballpark Effects thread.

The response seemed inconsistent with previous responses and data so I also sent in a ticket for clarification on the response ozomatli got and it left it to the data published. (https://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=519598&threadID=11878095#l_11878095)

I also started going through the developer chats looking for the handedness info skunk and I were taking about and found a quote from Tom here:

Any answer as to the impact of the -2 singles at skydome? Will the lost singles become outs, or will they contribute to the additional doubles (+2) and HR (+1)? (zbrent716 - Hall of Famer - 7:37 PM)

It should result in fewer hits in the Skydome; they don't necessarily have to be redistributed elsewhere if the other factors are neutral.

Which would also indicate to me that it effects hits and not singles directly.

Posted by skunk206 on 9/13/2020 10:54:00 PM (view original):
I sent in a ticket

The word from admin is "No, switch hitters do not get the bonus."

Posted by skunk206 on 9/14/2020 3:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by skunk206 on 9/13/2020 10:54:00 PM (view original):
I sent in a ticket

The word from admin is "No, switch hitters do not get the bonus."

Interesting, that's what I had thought from previous conversations... so that would open up to the slide as in: did they show the handedness modifier just for purposes of demonstrating the process without going through steps of swapping out the matchup they already established for the other examples. It does a good job of demonstrating the effect and how it works, even if it's not directly how it's used.

Posted by skunk206 on 9/14/2020 3:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by skunk206 on 9/13/2020 10:54:00 PM (view original):
I sent in a ticket

The word from admin is "No, switch hitters do not get the bonus."

I'm not 100% convinced this is correct. Didn't seble also say earlier that the 1B park rating did not apply to hits in general? Everything we know from the Bessire presentation says otherwise. For many it years Tom Z was the primary owner of SLB, and seble owned other sims (basketball, I think, was his primary one). So I am not convinced he correctly knows all the nuances of the code.

Certainly, the fact the so many owners, especially in OLs, prioritize switch hitters over LH or RH suggests that there is some inherent advantage to using them. Not conclusive, but certainly suggestive. There's probably an empirical study to be done here, and possibly an experimental one as well (future TWISL theme perhaps).

To be clear, I don't think he is deliberately misleading us - but I think he may be mistaken.