Seble is wrong Topic

Posted by Guitarguy567 on 6/24/2020 1:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by longtallbrad on 6/24/2020 1:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Guitarguy567 on 6/24/2020 1:27:00 PM (view original):
It means restating my argument, falsely, and then responding to that false restatement. Which brings up that point that nobody has responded to the substance of what I wrote.
I'll respond...and hopefully I'm responding to the substance you referred to here.

As far as I'm aware, I don't know anyone personally (of any color or heritage) who would say that racism has gotten worse. I would say that both intentional prejudice and unintentional bias have taken new forms or are expressed differently due to societal changes. For example, I've come across an increasing number of studies focusing on machine learning bias resulting in inequitable outcomes due to race or ethnicity. More and more judges are using computer algorithms to decide what sentence to impose based on the case's circumstances, and as a result convicted blacks tend to get harsher sentences than convicted whites for the same crime. And other algorithms are being used by medical practitioners to determine levels of risk and appropriate interventions. There's a lot of room for some population groups to get shafted if a lot of care doesn't go into scrubbing those kinds of programs from any inappropriate bias or inaccurate assumptions.

It's not that racism is new, and I wouldn't say it's getting worse. I do think a lot of people are getting more impatient, and a lot of people are paying closer attention to their own circumstances or to the treatment of others they care about.
Thank you for this clearheaded response. I think we have more we agree on than disagree on.
Thanks, man. I'm sure you're right about that. And, even though the temperature has risen in this thread, I actually appreciate the honest exchange because it's pushing me to understand the perspectives of people who've probably had a different life experience than me, and it's challenging me to try to organize and express my own thoughts and emotions instead of reaching for someone else's script.
6/24/2020 5:48 PM
Posted by ArlenWilliam on 6/24/2020 4:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dBKC on 6/24/2020 9:07:00 AM (view original):
All Seble said was “racism is bad” and you guys turned in to toddlers. If that’s a controversial statement to you, then you need to do some soul searching.

I assume you built some straw men arguments in your head and imagined that he was saying more than he was maybe? He didn’t say FTP or ACAB or even BLM (which shouldn’t be a controversial statement either btw). All he said was “racism is bad” and that he didn’t want hate speech on his website.

What’s your argument if that statement made you so upset? You trying to say racism is good?
BLM is a Marxist operation. Are you so deceived by them dBKC?

Have a read about "Black Lives Matter" & Movement for Black Lives. Listen to their own words. Knowledge is a good thing.
This makes me like BLM even more :)
6/24/2020 5:49 PM
Posted by Benis on 6/24/2020 2:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by longtallbrad on 6/24/2020 1:48:00 PM (view original):
Don't pick at someone's grammar or spelling on this site. My daughter's wicked smart, but she's not good and grammar or spelling. And she's good at plenty of things I suck at.
Is your daughter older than 10?
She's twenty-three. And she has a much-higher-than-average IQ, and got stellar grades in high school and college. (And I competed in a state spelling bee was I was twelve.) Any other questions?
6/24/2020 5:51 PM
Posted by Benis on 6/24/2020 4:20:00 PM (view original):
I saw an interesting study from body cam footage that showed how much more respectful and polite officers were to white citizens than black citizens.i.e using the word 'sir' instead of 'bud'.
Hmm. I don't doubt it. And (anecdotally), I have seen that and experienced it (as a white guy). But I'm curious - do you recall whether the findings varied based on the race/ethnicity of the officer?
6/24/2020 5:56 PM
Posted by crzyballplay on 6/24/2020 5:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2020 5:40:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2020 4:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by crzyballplay on 6/24/2020 3:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2020 3:38:00 PM (view original):
Woah. Did you actually read the article? It cites DOZENS of credible studies suggesting a racial bias! Please actually read the article, this isn't just one author's opinion.

I can even quote some of it if you are too lazy to read through it all.
Of course i read it nowherw does it state being black and driving a nice car results in a 10% for example chance of being pulled over vs a for example only a 5% chance for someone else being pulled over...i dont see any real evidence only someones opinion

Here's one example (of MANY):

A 2019 study of police stops in Cincinnati found that black motorists were 30 percent more likely to be pulled over than white motorists. Black motorists also comprised 76 percent of arrests following a traffic stop despite making up 43 percent of the city’s population. It’s worth noting, again, that multiple studies have shown that searches of white motorists are slightly more likely to turn up contraband than searches of black motorists.

A 2020 report on 1.8 million police stops by the eight largest law enforcement agencies in California found that blacks were stopped at a rate 2.5 times higher than the per capita rate of whites. The report also found that black people were far more likely to be stopped for “reasonable suspicion” (as opposed to actually breaking a law) and were three times more likely than any other group to be searched, even though searches of white people were more likely to turn up contraband.

This is not OPINION. This is a FACT. It is a study. Can you please explain why this disparity exists?

Note: More studies have shown that the later in the day (and thus harder it becomes to see), the less this disparity exists. Want to guess why? (Hint: It's because the cops can't see that the driver is WHITE OR BLACK as easily)
Still waiting.. tick tock.
With out looking at it more, my guess is that blacks are pulled over more because they commit more of the crimes and fit the description of said suspect , but thats my opinion and not a fact, i leave the facts to people who know them, thats why i forward you to people with more information than i have . I dont know everything thats why im open to hear all sides .
1. That's called systemic racism. What you described is what I am talking about. Black people "fit the description of a criminal" and thus are pulled over more.
2. You really think that explains a 2.5 times difference? Can you see how this disparity might harm black people?

Alright. Let's try another.

A survey of data from the U.S. Sentencing Commission in 2017 found that when black men and white men commit the same crime, black men on average receive a sentence almost 20 percent longer. The research controlled for variables such as age and prior criminal history.

A 2018 review of academic research found that at nearly all levels of the criminal justice system, “disparities in policing and punishment within the black population along the colour continuum are often comparable to or even exceed disparities between blacks and whites as a whole.” That is, the darker the skin of a black person, the greater the disparity in arrests, charges, conviction rates and sentencing.

As in, when a white person and a black person enter court charged with the same crime, with the same priors, the black person will, on average, be sentenced to a longer time in prison. Explain away.

6/24/2020 6:00 PM (edited)
By the way, you said you defer to people who know more..

The CONSENSUS in academia (sociology, criminology, etc) is that there is systemic racism in the criminal justice system. It isn't even debated.
6/24/2020 6:00 PM
Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2020 6:00:00 PM (view original):
By the way, you said you defer to people who know more..

The CONSENSUS in academia (sociology, criminology, etc) is that there is systemic racism in the criminal justice system. It isn't even debated.
For all I know, there may be debate. But, on this topic, I would strongly encourage anyone (who likes to read or doesn't mind reading) to spend time with Bryan Stevenson's book, Just Mercy. It kicked me in the head, in a very uncomfortable but maybe life-changing way.
6/24/2020 6:01 PM
I agree. ^^
6/24/2020 6:04 PM
Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2020 6:00:00 PM (view original):
By the way, you said you defer to people who know more..

The CONSENSUS in academia (sociology, criminology, etc) is that there is systemic racism in the criminal justice system. It isn't even debated.
its obviously debated.
6/24/2020 6:19 PM
Posted by longtallbrad on 6/24/2020 6:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2020 6:00:00 PM (view original):
By the way, you said you defer to people who know more..

The CONSENSUS in academia (sociology, criminology, etc) is that there is systemic racism in the criminal justice system. It isn't even debated.
For all I know, there may be debate. But, on this topic, I would strongly encourage anyone (who likes to read or doesn't mind reading) to spend time with Bryan Stevenson's book, Just Mercy. It kicked me in the head, in a very uncomfortable but maybe life-changing way.
Just looked into this and ordered the book!
6/24/2020 6:35 PM
It actually isn't debated in academia. It's debated among dipshits in YouTube videos who grift the uneducated in order to make money. Can you answer my question?
6/24/2020 6:36 PM
Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2020 6:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by crzyballplay on 6/24/2020 5:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2020 5:40:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2020 4:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by crzyballplay on 6/24/2020 3:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2020 3:38:00 PM (view original):
Woah. Did you actually read the article? It cites DOZENS of credible studies suggesting a racial bias! Please actually read the article, this isn't just one author's opinion.

I can even quote some of it if you are too lazy to read through it all.
Of course i read it nowherw does it state being black and driving a nice car results in a 10% for example chance of being pulled over vs a for example only a 5% chance for someone else being pulled over...i dont see any real evidence only someones opinion

Here's one example (of MANY):

A 2019 study of police stops in Cincinnati found that black motorists were 30 percent more likely to be pulled over than white motorists. Black motorists also comprised 76 percent of arrests following a traffic stop despite making up 43 percent of the city’s population. It’s worth noting, again, that multiple studies have shown that searches of white motorists are slightly more likely to turn up contraband than searches of black motorists.

A 2020 report on 1.8 million police stops by the eight largest law enforcement agencies in California found that blacks were stopped at a rate 2.5 times higher than the per capita rate of whites. The report also found that black people were far more likely to be stopped for “reasonable suspicion” (as opposed to actually breaking a law) and were three times more likely than any other group to be searched, even though searches of white people were more likely to turn up contraband.

This is not OPINION. This is a FACT. It is a study. Can you please explain why this disparity exists?

Note: More studies have shown that the later in the day (and thus harder it becomes to see), the less this disparity exists. Want to guess why? (Hint: It's because the cops can't see that the driver is WHITE OR BLACK as easily)
Still waiting.. tick tock.
With out looking at it more, my guess is that blacks are pulled over more because they commit more of the crimes and fit the description of said suspect , but thats my opinion and not a fact, i leave the facts to people who know them, thats why i forward you to people with more information than i have . I dont know everything thats why im open to hear all sides .
1. That's called systemic racism. What you described is what I am talking about. Black people "fit the description of a criminal" and thus are pulled over more.
2. You really think that explains a 2.5 times difference? Can you see how this disparity might harm black people?

Alright. Let's try another.

A survey of data from the U.S. Sentencing Commission in 2017 found that when black men and white men commit the same crime, black men on average receive a sentence almost 20 percent longer. The research controlled for variables such as age and prior criminal history.

A 2018 review of academic research found that at nearly all levels of the criminal justice system, “disparities in policing and punishment within the black population along the colour continuum are often comparable to or even exceed disparities between blacks and whites as a whole.” That is, the darker the skin of a black person, the greater the disparity in arrests, charges, conviction rates and sentencing.

As in, when a white person and a black person enter court charged with the same crime, with the same priors, the black person will, on average, be sentenced to a longer time in prison. Explain away.

Well that is a easy one, that is known as Money, it has nothing to do with race either ask O.J.
6/24/2020 6:40 PM
Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2020 6:36:00 PM (view original):
It actually isn't debated in academia. It's debated among dipshits in YouTube videos who grift the uneducated in order to make money. Can you answer my question?
Hey dont be calling me names cause i make money on youtube!
6/24/2020 6:42 PM
Posted by Guitarguy567 on 6/24/2020 6:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by longtallbrad on 6/24/2020 6:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2020 6:00:00 PM (view original):
By the way, you said you defer to people who know more..

The CONSENSUS in academia (sociology, criminology, etc) is that there is systemic racism in the criminal justice system. It isn't even debated.
For all I know, there may be debate. But, on this topic, I would strongly encourage anyone (who likes to read or doesn't mind reading) to spend time with Bryan Stevenson's book, Just Mercy. It kicked me in the head, in a very uncomfortable but maybe life-changing way.
Just looked into this and ordered the book!
RESPECT.
6/24/2020 6:42 PM
Posted by crzyballplay on 6/24/2020 6:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 6/24/2020 6:36:00 PM (view original):
It actually isn't debated in academia. It's debated among dipshits in YouTube videos who grift the uneducated in order to make money. Can you answer my question?
Hey dont be calling me names cause i make money on youtube!
Wait, really? lmao
6/24/2020 6:47 PM
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Seble is wrong Topic

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