I know you can find some gems in Div II, and Div III pools. But I consider it a complete waste of time, no matter what Division you are in. There are just too many Div I recruits who have some blue and green in key categories, who have absolutely nobody on them even after the second day.

You just have to go looking for them.

Adding my process for D3, since I’ve finally had a chance to detail it. Some folks have brought up that they use camps at D3. I don’t doubt you can do that from some areas, but in a spot where the 500 mile radius includes a lot of states, I can’t get camps to work. I end up with lots of level 2 and 3 guys, but fewer overall level 4; and with this method, I want as many at level 4 as possible.
***********************************
Here’s how I scout at D3.

First, I take my budget, and divide by 200. That’s roughly the size of the recruit pool I want to construct. So if my scouting budget is 19000, I’m looking to build a pool of ~95 guys scouted to level 4. I aim for about a 75-25 split on D1 to D2 pool players. This usually means I scout D2 internationals, and D1 local guys. You might get to 90 just on D2 Internationals and D1 NY guys. That’s cool, you’ll get a good selection from there. So here’s what my process looks like from there.

1. I select scouting service, **choose D2 pool** and select internationals. You might be alright getting Canada in, too, but you don’t want to get up much higher than your max target number. Using the scouting service for these guys gets you to level 1. But you don’t want to recruit based on that, if you can help it.

2. Using the assistant now, I choose D2 again, and then I un-check the “Find new players” option. I just want to scout the guys I’ve already put in my pool, nobody else at this point. I leave all positions open, and any distance (since these are international recruits). I scout 25 at a time. I send the scout out, getting 25 at a time until all my D2 targets are up to level 4 (you can tell when the money stops draining from your scouting budget). Now you’ve got a pool of, say, 25-35 D2 players. The D2 international pool tends to be lightly scouted, at least in the world’s I’m in, so you’ll have some decent options available to you here most years.

3. Now I turn to D1. Here, you have to stay local. The reason is that all the top 100 players come at level 1. You don’t want more of those guys polluting your pool than absolutely necessary. So I would deduct the number of D2 guys I’ve scouted to 4 from my target pool number, and then use scouting service to fill my target pool. **remember to select the D1 pool**

4. Back to step 2, but with the D1 pool. Remember to uncheck the “Find new players” again, don’t want any of those. The big important difference is that I’m going to limit my distance to 100 miles. If I have plenty left, I’ll move to 200 miles. You can also use the advanced search tools, and limit your assistant search to certain positions, to really get granular in your process, but I’d keep it simple if you’re just starting out. Good idea to leave a couple grand in your scouting budget for 2nd session most years - that’s when you can scout for transfers after the season.

I'm honestly confused why so many people are so insistent upon getting to level 4 scouting. It can be a great tiebreaker, but for the lower levels, especially D3, I think you can do a pretty good job of narrowing down the recruit pool with level 3 info. Of course the problem is that if you aim too narrowly for L3 you will have a large number of guys stuck at 1 or 2, but if you get to an average scouting level of about 3.3 you're almost all at level 3, and that's usually enough info for me.

Posted by dahsdebater on 12/17/2019 12:11:00 PM (view original):
I'm honestly confused why so many people are so insistent upon getting to level 4 scouting. It can be a great tiebreaker, but for the lower levels, especially D3, I think you can do a pretty good job of narrowing down the recruit pool with level 3 info. Of course the problem is that if you aim too narrowly for L3 you will have a large number of guys stuck at 1 or 2, but if you get to an average scouting level of about 3.3 you're almost all at level 3, and that's usually enough info for me.

For what I reserve for D3 second session scouting, usually between $1500 and $2500, I often only get to level 3. Say I have $2400 left, instead of getting 12 guys to level 4, I’ll go for 18 at level 3. These are kind of last resort options, because primary targets have been scooped up, or are about to get scooped up by higher level teams. I’m generally only looking for a guy who will be the 11th or 12th player for a couple years (even better if he’s a transfer or juco).

For the guys I’m thinking about investing a lot of AP/$ on, I personally find level 4 *much* more valuable than level 3. Defense might be a blue F, for example - enormous difference between a blue 12 and a green 19, in terms of whether this is a guy I’m going to think about prioritizing.

But I get that folks aren’t all going to do it the same way, that’s kind of the point. Different strokes and all that.

Posted by dahsdebater on 12/17/2019 12:11:00 PM (view original):
I'm honestly confused why so many people are so insistent upon getting to level 4 scouting. It can be a great tiebreaker, but for the lower levels, especially D3, I think you can do a pretty good job of narrowing down the recruit pool with level 3 info. Of course the problem is that if you aim too narrowly for L3 you will have a large number of guys stuck at 1 or 2, but if you get to an average scouting level of about 3.3 you're almost all at level 3, and that's usually enough info for me.

You NAILED it dahs. Period. And to any new coach looking for a new method, listen up. I played 58 seasons of HD in my first career and I sucked. Never made a S16. Then I became friends with 2 coaches that i won't name here, after I returned 10 (real life) years later. And TWO tips I learned from those coaches, have changed my career. I went from 0 S16s, to a coach that could win 8 Titles in a calendar year.

Tip 1) Stamina stamina stamina when running press. This is unrelated to this topic/thread. But it's important.

The BIG one.... 2) don't scout ANY players to L4. Stop at L3. It would take me an hour to write the reasoning why behind this. And i don't wanna make this Gil-length (no offense Gil!!!) But if you're new and struggling, and you want to find out the logic behind this method, feel free to shoot me a sitemail. Or even if you're a vet and having trouble with recruiting/scouting in some way, I'll chat with anybody. It's not a super secret or anything. Just a method that I'm sure not a lot of people take into consideration.

If you’re willing to explain your reasoning in sitemail, why not here? Afraid Benis will make fun of you if it’s more than 200 words? No worries! I’ll just report his post, I got you.

i dont get the don't scout ANY to level 4 part. i get that level 3 is enough in most cases and really that level 4 info does not make a difference in the recruit/do not recruit decision for most recruits. but ANY? why the strong objection?

the way per and lp are in this game, it feels strictly wrong not to check on those blue vs greens especially for per - when it matters (when the green guy is worth recruiting or prioritizing higher over the blue). spoken as someone who hasn't played d2/d3 since years before 3.0 so might be off base here..

Posted by dahsdebater on 12/17/2019 12:11:00 PM (view original):
I'm honestly confused why so many people are so insistent upon getting to level 4 scouting. It can be a great tiebreaker, but for the lower levels, especially D3, I think you can do a pretty good job of narrowing down the recruit pool with level 3 info. Of course the problem is that if you aim too narrowly for L3 you will have a large number of guys stuck at 1 or 2, but if you get to an average scouting level of about 3.3 you're almost all at level 3, and that's usually enough info for me.

ease of game play?

Posted by gillispie1 on 12/18/2019 8:33:00 PM (view original):
i dont get the don't scout ANY to level 4 part. i get that level 3 is enough in most cases and really that level 4 info does not make a difference in the recruit/do not recruit decision for most recruits. but ANY? why the strong objection?

the way per and lp are in this game, it feels strictly wrong not to check on those blue vs greens especially for per - when it matters (when the green guy is worth recruiting or prioritizing higher over the blue). spoken as someone who hasn't played d2/d3 since years before 3.0 so might be off base here..

I don't wanna tell the world EVERY part of my strategy to be honest. But I feel like most of the elite coaches would grasp the concept of it anyways. But to be vague, I don't mean NEVER scout players to level 4. I just mean dont do it in your initial search. Getting to L3 is enough to be able to decide if a recruit is worthy of even a consideration or to be written off completely.

Using the color chart in the pinned thread, take a C- for example. 42 is the minimum. If it's orange at L3 plan for a 42 minimum, if it's black at L3 plan for 52 minimum (10 isn't the minimum for a black rating, but for simple math during scouting, using 10 makes it easy), and if it's blue plan for a 62 minimum growth number. Is that good enough to pursue? Make your decision yes or no, and then on to the next recruit for a glance. And so on

From here, I will say no more. But I agree, the high potential growth in LP and PER adds complexity to this stage. But this is only stage one of it all.

i don't really disagree with any of that... but i also don't get how it would take an hour to write 'its cheaper to do evals as needed from level 3->4 than to scout everyone with the assistant'

just giving you a hard time. i'm in no position to tell someone else to be concise! i was curious about the ANY though, if you really meant any or just as needed & by hand.

Posted by shoe3 on 12/17/2019 11:26:00 PM (view original):
If you’re willing to explain your reasoning in sitemail, why not here? Afraid Benis will make fun of you if it’s more than 200 words? No worries! I’ll just report his post, I got you.

Benis always makes fun of me! But not for long posts.

I am "pretty sure" a lot of people don't use this method. I have discussed it with a few coaches that have reached out to me for advice, and they have won titles now. One coach in particular after hundreds of seasons being mediocre. So to be honest, I'm afraid if everybody does it, either too many coaches will get super good, super fast. OR it may become less effective.

Then again, there's some I've discussed with, that don't like the method. So some disagree, and it may not be for everyone. But the proof is in the pudding.

There's only so much you can do with scouting/recruiting. It's not like a loop hole or anything.

I pretty much do the L3 method and it typically has worked well for me especially at d3. I dont really need the L4 info when at least half my targets are going to be picked off by d1 or d2 teams on the first day of recruiting anyway.

Posted by topdogggbm on 12/18/2019 9:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 12/17/2019 11:26:00 PM (view original):
If you’re willing to explain your reasoning in sitemail, why not here? Afraid Benis will make fun of you if it’s more than 200 words? No worries! I’ll just report his post, I got you.

Benis always makes fun of me! But not for long posts.

I am "pretty sure" a lot of people don't use this method. I have discussed it with a few coaches that have reached out to me for advice, and they have won titles now. One coach in particular after hundreds of seasons being mediocre. So to be honest, I'm afraid if everybody does it, either too many coaches will get super good, super fast. OR it may become less effective.

Then again, there's some I've discussed with, that don't like the method. So some disagree, and it may not be for everyone. But the proof is in the pudding.

There's only so much you can do with scouting/recruiting. It's not like a loop hole or anything.

No offense, doggg. You’re having a great run, and I’m sure this is solid advice. But let’s not kid ourselves. No one is inventing fire here, to resurrect Mike for a minute. Lots of coaches can (and do) go from mediocre to a title winner, often with just one piece they were missing, after getting a mentor. Maybe it’s scouting, maybe it’s distribution, maybe it’s stamina for press, or perimeter for flex, or how zone works.

People aren’t struggling because they’re not doing scouting the way you do it. They struggle when they haven’t figured out an efficient way to do it, for whatever reason. The way I detail in this thread is one way. I’m sure your double-secret way is a fine way, too. In fact, I’ll bet it’s some variation of what a lot of us were doing initially in beta - FSS broadly, full private camp, maybe some public camps; gets a lot to level 3, a few to level 4, and leaves you a *little* to selectively scout a few up that look borderline; and if you are comfortable spending more time, and dismissing lots of players who can end up being excellent, it will work fine. Especially with press, where you’re mostly concerned with starting numbers, projectable superstars are less important than having 12 competent players at all times.

I am one one of those players who doesn’t care for this method. It takes *a lot* more of my time, doing something which is not fun for me, (translating letter grades into numbers, etc). I like having confidence in how I’m prioritizing my effort. I also enjoy getting players your mentors taught you to turn your nose up at, and watching them become All-Americans for championship teams. I’m doing ok at D2 too, by the way, 25 seasons of 3.0 D2 with 8 final fours and 4 titles. That’s not to start a p!$$ing match, just to reiterate there is no *one way* or *best way* to do it. There are lots of good ways. The most important thing is to figure out a workable strategy for yourself, and then have fun executing it. Learn and tweak, stay adaptable.

Posted by shoe3 on 12/18/2019 9:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 12/18/2019 9:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 12/17/2019 11:26:00 PM (view original):
If you’re willing to explain your reasoning in sitemail, why not here? Afraid Benis will make fun of you if it’s more than 200 words? No worries! I’ll just report his post, I got you.

Benis always makes fun of me! But not for long posts.

I am "pretty sure" a lot of people don't use this method. I have discussed it with a few coaches that have reached out to me for advice, and they have won titles now. One coach in particular after hundreds of seasons being mediocre. So to be honest, I'm afraid if everybody does it, either too many coaches will get super good, super fast. OR it may become less effective.

Then again, there's some I've discussed with, that don't like the method. So some disagree, and it may not be for everyone. But the proof is in the pudding.

There's only so much you can do with scouting/recruiting. It's not like a loop hole or anything.

No offense, doggg. You’re having a great run, and I’m sure this is solid advice. But let’s not kid ourselves. No one is inventing fire here, to resurrect Mike for a minute. Lots of coaches can (and do) go from mediocre to a title winner, often with just one piece they were missing, after getting a mentor. Maybe it’s scouting, maybe it’s distribution, maybe it’s stamina for press, or perimeter for flex, or how zone works.

People aren’t struggling because they’re not doing scouting the way you do it. They struggle when they haven’t figured out an efficient way to do it, for whatever reason. The way I detail in this thread is one way. I’m sure your double-secret way is a fine way, too. In fact, I’ll bet it’s some variation of what a lot of us were doing initially in beta - FSS broadly, full private camp, maybe some public camps; gets a lot to level 3, a few to level 4, and leaves you a *little* to selectively scout a few up that look borderline; and if you are comfortable spending more time, and dismissing lots of players who can end up being excellent, it will work fine. Especially with press, where you’re mostly concerned with starting numbers, projectable superstars are less important than having 12 competent players at all times.

I am one one of those players who doesn’t care for this method. It takes *a lot* more of my time, doing something which is not fun for me, (translating letter grades into numbers, etc). I like having confidence in how I’m prioritizing my effort. I also enjoy getting players your mentors taught you to turn your nose up at, and watching them become All-Americans for championship teams. I’m doing ok at D2 too, by the way, 25 seasons of 3.0 D2 with 8 final fours and 4 titles. That’s not to start a p!$$ing match, just to reiterate there is no *one way* or *best way* to do it. There are lots of good ways. The most important thing is to figure out a workable strategy for yourself, and then have fun executing it. Learn and tweak, stay adaptable.

Shoe I agree. Look at my last line of my post.... there's only so much you can do with scouting/recruiting. Its not like a loop hole or anything.

And I also agree that coaches are doing some variation of it as well. What I'm trying to say is that my career changed once I learned to do what I'm doing. That's all. And not just mine. I taught another coach my method, a coach with hundreds of seasons of no F4s. He just won his first title and has played in a second title game already.

Each coach has their own style and preferences. And each is successful in their own way. I just wanted to tell my story. So if a coach would like to reach out, they know the background story.

As far as you saying you don't like to use the color chart and the number chart in the pinned thread, because it takes too long. That isn't true. Especially for YOU. You've been around long enough to where it's basically memorized. And everyone here posting is likely the same. It may take a new coach a season or two to adjust his eyeballs to that chart. But it's like riding a bike. After you learn it, it's just programmed.