Posted by Got_Worms on 5/11/2019 11:39:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 5/10/2019 7:34:00 PM (view original):
that JV..thought he meant Joey Votto. my bad!

I thought he mean Joey Votto too!

Sorry Stros/Tigers fan. Just kinda used to people automatically knowing who I’m talking about when I say JV

Posted by Got_Worms on 5/12/2019 9:25:00 PM (view original):
Watching the Cubs-Brewers game tonight A-Rod said a couple more good seasons out of Jon Lester and he's probably a HOFer. Broker two of the biggest curses in recorded history!

Speaking of which, MLB Network did a thing of top 5 guys to start a theoretical game 7.

it went:

5. Max Scherzer
4. Jacob DeGrom
3. Jon Lester
2. Madison Bumgarner
1. Justin Verlander

And I couldn’t help but think, Jon Lester????

Apparently he’s been pretty good in elimination games.

I hope the Sabermetric stat heads don't go too overboard with HOF campaigns otherwise Jack Clark and Brett Butler might get strong consideration.

Just checked career leaders and Joey Votto is 12th all-time in OBP. That is impressive!

Well Jack Clark’s career BA was .267 and Butler’s career SLG is .376

Votto has a little bit of power to go along with a .300 average.

Everything that needs to be said has been said.

.300/.400/.500 career line. From 2009-2017 his line was .315/.436/.544 good enough for a 162 OPS+

and I don’t really get the team wins argument. That’s something you use for NBA superstars and NFL quarterbacks (which I don’t agree with on the latter). But it’s especially odd in baseball cuz the Angels haven’t won a single playoff game with Mike Trout.

Hall of Fame Statistics

Black Ink

Batting - 17 (141), Average HOFer ˜ 27

Gray Ink

Batting - 143 (107), Average HOFer ˜ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor

Batting - 88 (210), Likely HOFer ˜ 100

Hall of Fame Standards

Batting - 38 (191), Average HOFer ˜ 50

JAWS

First Base (17th): 58.5 career WAR / 46.0 7yr-peak WAR / 52.2JAWS Average HOF 1B (out of 21): 66.8 career WAR / 42.7 7yr-peak WAR / 54.8 JAWS

Posted by d_rock97 on 5/14/2019 10:36:00 PM (view original):

Hall of Fame Statistics

Black Ink

Batting - 17 (141), Average HOFer ˜ 27

Gray Ink

Batting - 143 (107), Average HOFer ˜ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor

Batting - 88 (210), Likely HOFer ˜ 100

Hall of Fame Standards

Batting - 38 (191), Average HOFer ˜ 50

JAWS

First Base (17th): 58.5 career WAR / 46.0 7yr-peak WAR / 52.2JAWS Average HOF 1B (out of 21): 66.8 career WAR / 42.7 7yr-peak WAR / 54.8 JAWS

This is Joey Votto?

Posted by d_rock97 on 5/14/2019 10:21:00 PM (view original):
Well Jack Clark’s career BA was .267 and Butler’s career SLG is .376

Votto has a little bit of power to go along with a .300 average.

Everything that needs to be said has been said.

.300/.400/.500 career line. From 2009-2017 his line was .315/.436/.544 good enough for a 162 OPS+

and I don’t really get the team wins argument. That’s something you use for NBA superstars and NFL quarterbacks (which I don’t agree with on the latter). But it’s especially odd in baseball cuz the Angels haven’t won a single playoff game with Mike Trout.

Brett Butler's slugging percentage is irrelevant because he was a singles/triples hitter with excellent speed and defense.

It's sort of like the argument people presented against Trevor Hoffman and other reliever's, that they didn't pitch very many innings so they're not HOF caliber. It's apples and oranges!

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison, Butler's lack of extra base power is a clear deficiency in his skill set and is within his control as a hitter, while there's a nothing a modern reliever could do about the league-wide 9th inning only closer usage

Power is within a hitter's control? Good to know. I'll let Dee Gordon know he can start hitting 40 homers now.

PS: Triples are extra base hits. And Butler had 131 of them.

of course power is within a hitter's control in a way that usage by the manager is not, stop being stupid on purpose

Butler averaged 10 triples per 162 games over his career, which is good by the standards of triples, but his overall extra base production is very low, hence his not very good career slugging percentage,

Posted by d_rock97 on 5/14/2019 8:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Got_Worms on 5/12/2019 9:25:00 PM (view original):
Watching the Cubs-Brewers game tonight A-Rod said a couple more good seasons out of Jon Lester and he's probably a HOFer. Broker two of the biggest curses in recorded history!

Speaking of which, MLB Network did a thing of top 5 guys to start a theoretical game 7.

it went:

5. Max Scherzer
4. Jacob DeGrom
3. Jon Lester
2. Madison Bumgarner
1. Justin Verlander

And I couldn’t help but think, Jon Lester????

Apparently he’s been pretty good in elimination games.

After watching the Rockies-Red Sox game last night, I'd add Chris Sale to this list, and he is likely a HOFer also.

Posted by 06gsp on 5/15/2019 11:19:00 AM (view original):
of course power is within a hitter's control in a way that usage by the manager is not, stop being stupid on purpose

Butler averaged 10 triples per 162 games over his career, which is good by the standards of triples, but his overall extra base production is very low, hence his not very good career slugging percentage,

I don't want to get in a debate on the quality of Brett Butler's career as he's clearly not a HOFer, but we need to draw the line and make the Hall of Fame Great Again!! :P

After Jack Morris got elected, there were some writer's making a case for Dave Stieb and Bret Saberhagen. Just stop!

oh yeah, I'm definitely with you on "let player X in because he's comparable to the worst player already in the Hall" arguments

Posted by 06gsp on 5/15/2019 1:45:00 PM (view original):
oh yeah, I'm definitely with you on "let player X in because he's comparable to the worst player already in the Hall" arguments

Since the HOF has recognized "mediocre longevity" with the election of Harold Baines, I'm more inclined to include players that had shorter, dominate peaks like Don Mattingly for example. Don't laugh, but even Dwight Gooden falls into this category, a transcendent talent, but a disaster off the field.

Posted by 06gsp on 5/15/2019 11:19:00 AM (view original):
of course power is within a hitter's control in a way that usage by the manager is not, stop being stupid on purpose

Butler averaged 10 triples per 162 games over his career, which is good by the standards of triples, but his overall extra base production is very low, hence his not very good career slugging percentage,

Uh, you're saying that power is in the hitter's control, and I'm the one being stupid? Lots of great hitters had little to no power (Rose, Collins, Gwynn, etc.). You think that's because they just chose to hit a lot of singles and doubles? Or perhaps because they just ran really fast?

"Power" is not in a hitter's control. They either have it or they don't.