I think it would behoove WIS to just give us pitchers' maximum number of pitches per game w/o penalty (and a penalty curve if there is a curve to it). Since it is such an essential part of this sim, it shouldn't be something they keep from unsuspecting customers.

Should the pitcher's GP/162 really come from his draft center stats, or should it come from his roster stats for "Actual Statistics (projected to a 162 game season)" once he is chosen? Very often they are quite different (more shown in the GP/162 on the roster's stats in those cases).

Bump...Boy, am I lost...

I've played for 15 years and haven't figured it out...

I feel better...

Too complicated for me. Since i routinely flirt with disaster by drafting two high quality starting pitchers with barely 800 between them (e.g., 15 Walter Johnson and 17 Ed Cicotti) as my starting rotation, with any starting pitcher with 390 to 400 Ip, I just set their pc to 90 tpc and 90 mpc and leave them there all season until i see fatigue. Then I'll adjust it. 90 pitches will usually get me through six innings, and my bullpen usually closes the deal from there.

Use 16 pitches per inning as a starting point, then adjust for salary cap, DH and AAA. That will get you in the ballpark.

1,300 innings in an open league is about the minimum. Monitor early season fatigue. Use your scrubs early in the season. And you have to set your pitch counts and pull settings accordingly. It helps to draft at least 1 cheap pitcher that can mop up. Trial and error...

Personally I like 2 and 3 man rotations. Drafting a couple of guys that can spot start works for me. I can usually build a pitching staff for 50% salary...

You have to look at IP/G numbers. Guys with less than 6IP/G won't get deep into games without fatigue issues. But you can use them in tandem settings...

With all due respect Doc, IMO 1300 ip in an OL is a waste of money that can be allocated elsewhere. I recently had a WS team whose home field was Coors and only drafted about 1250 ip. I had no fatigue issues at all with my starting pitchers bc i generally only ask that they throw no more than 90 pitches which will more often than not get me through six innings, which is all i want the starters to do.

Unless his name was Silver King, I'd probably lose my mind if one of my starting pitchers threw more than 100 pitches in a game during the regular season. Lol

Also you do NOT need to adjust for park in general. This is a myth that has been widely distributed at this point.

In the sticky - permanent - posts on this site are contrarian23's essays on pitcher fatigue. I strongly suggest reading them. Also anything by Elbirdo on pitch counts - see the first page of this thread. 1300 is probably a little more IP than you need in an OL, I agree with Mixtroy, though his particular daring approach to rotations is not one I have tried.

The 90-100 pitch count is just a fashion in real world baseball, and instead here you really need to set pitch counts.

If you don't want to do the math, the simple version is 15 pitches per IP/162 plus the 10% bonus WIS gives each pitcher divided by the number of starts expected (40 in a four man rotation, 54 in a three man rotation, 32-3 in a five man rotation) once the team has been created, but you need to vary that for IP/G. In general if IP/G times 15 pitches is lower than what the above calculation got you, or vice versa, then the minimum pitch count is usually the lower number of those two (IP/162 plus 10% times 15 divided by number of expected starts, versus IP/G times 15) and the higher the maximum pitch count for that pitcher. Some people use 16.5 pitches per inning instead of 15, though that works better for more modern pitchers or ones with more strikeouts.

But for some deadball era pitchers, it is better to calculate a little lower - 13 or 14 pitches per inning as for Addie Joss, since otherwise they will got too many innings since they don't strike out a lot of people, nor walk nor give up many hits.

But the best way to calculate all this is the long version, which I am usually too lazy to use, which you will find from those two sources and experts on pitching that i cited above. Good luck. ozomati is right that in general parks don't matter for setting pitch counts, they matter for the number of IP overall on the staff, but mainly Coors and a couple of others, while some pitcher's parks mean you can get away with a bit fewer IP. That is a different question than pitch counts though.

bump. Still one of the most valuable posts ever made in this forums. elbirdo should be in the WIS Hall of Fame based on this post alone.

Posted by elbirdo on 5/31/2012 6:46:00 PM (view original):
Exceeding the pitch count which is equal to pitches per season divided by games per season.

By my reckoning, Kilroy should be able to throw about 147 pitches in a game before in-game fatigue sets in.  (12391 pitches divided 84 games started)

Lots of great info in this thread but this is one piece that is incorrect. In game fatigue is based on the pitcher’s real life IP/G.

Mike, that's correct. Great catch.

Actually, although I think elbirdo's post could be misleading as written, he is correct. All of Kilroy's games pitched were starts, so the math works out.

Using my calculations, which vary just slightly from elbirdo's, I get 17.1 pitchers per IP for Kilroy. Multiply by his 8.58 IP/G gives me 146.6 pitches per game.

For pitchers who both started and relieved, it's best to figure the pitch count by doing the math as I wrote it in this post...but for pitchers who only started and never relieved, the calculation shown by elbirdo will work as well.

Posted by contrarian23 on 2/21/2019 6:36:00 PM (view original):
Mike, that's correct. Great catch.

Actually, although I think elbirdo's post could be misleading as written, he is correct. All of Kilroy's games pitched were starts, so the math works out.

Using my calculations, which vary just slightly from elbirdo's, I get 17.1 pitchers per IP for Kilroy. Multiply by his 8.58 IP/G gives me 146.6 pitches per game.

For pitchers who both started and relieved, it's best to figure the pitch count by doing the math as I wrote it in this post...but for pitchers who only started and never relieved, the calculation shown by elbirdo will work as well.

glad you posted this contrarian. Mike's post was putting me back at the drawing board as I was thinking "man, I'm missing something". I'm reassured by your calcs.