Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 10:13:00 AM (view original):
Everything you currently pay state tax for you'd pay a 9% federal tax.

So state sales taxes just go away? Or are we stacking?

And, again, what real problem does this solve?

If it essentially collects just as much revenue as the current system, why bother with such a large change?

Posted by all3 on 11/16/2018 9:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 11/15/2018 3:39:00 PM (view original):
Sales tax on what?? Food?? A Haircut??? A massage?? A Blow...... oh wait..........

Go back and read it all bob; the "usage" tax would only be on "unnecessary" things. Determining what is deemed "necessary" would be the big challenge. I think you'd have a tough time getting that "Blow....." item exempted. As an aside, legalizing and legislating prostitution would be a HUGE tax influx. There would be sales (and/or usage) tax, yearly licensing fees, mandated periodic health checks, etc.

I would be completely satisfied if the federal tax code was eliminated and we went to a system of a straight "usage" federal tax. EVERYTHING comes with a determined federal tax "necessary" or not. If you buy it the tax is built in. Whether you're a corporation, an individual, a church or a farmer you pay the federal tax on what you buy at whatever predetermined rate is arrived at. That's it. State sales tax could stay the same and still be added as such. Radical, but I would think it would be effective if implemented.

Posted by rsp777 on 11/16/2018 12:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 11/16/2018 9:33:00 AM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 11/15/2018 3:39:00 PM (view original):
Sales tax on what?? Food?? A Haircut??? A massage?? A Blow...... oh wait..........

Go back and read it all bob; the "usage" tax would only be on "unnecessary" things. Determining what is deemed "necessary" would be the big challenge. I think you'd have a tough time getting that "Blow....." item exempted. As an aside, legalizing and legislating prostitution would be a HUGE tax influx. There would be sales (and/or usage) tax, yearly licensing fees, mandated periodic health checks, etc.

I would be completely satisfied if the federal tax code was eliminated and we went to a system of a straight "usage" federal tax. EVERYTHING comes with a determined federal tax "necessary" or not. If you buy it the tax is built in. Whether you're a corporation, an individual, a church or a farmer you pay the federal tax on what you buy at whatever predetermined rate is arrived at. That's it. State sales tax could stay the same and still be added as such. Radical, but I would think it would be effective if implemented.

Effective at what, exactly?

Effective at what, exactly?

Wiping out the assload of red tape and expenditures involved in the current federal tax code for one.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 10:13:00 AM (view original):
Everything you currently pay state tax for you'd pay a 9% federal tax.

So state sales taxes just go away? Or are we stacking?

We are stacking. Life becomes more expensive but you're effective tax rate goes down to 9% so you may save more. Less beurocracy with complex tax codes and evaders. So your friends who are worth $200mil but pay little when they buy new furniture worth $2mil they pay $180k in federal taxes on it.

So to clarify a new car worth $50K in MA would carry a 6.5% state tax AND a 9% Federal Tax. So $3,250 + $4,500 for a TOTAL of $7,750 in taxes. Don't like it? Buy a used one. But if you can afford a car that pricey the addtional $8k should not really impact you.

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 10:13:00 AM (view original):
Everything you currently pay state tax for you'd pay a 9% federal tax.

So state sales taxes just go away? Or are we stacking?

We are stacking. Life becomes more expensive but you're effective tax rate goes down to 9% so you may save more. Less beurocracy with complex tax codes and evaders. So your friends who are worth $200mil but pay little when they buy new furniture worth $2mil they pay $180k in federal taxes on it.

A married couple with 2 kids and a household income of $100,000 pays an effective rate of 5% in 2018.

So this plan almost DOUBLES their income taxes and also adds 9% to a lot of things they buy.

Seems like a terrible idea.

Now you see what the rest of us have to deal with, rsp? He doesn't even take the time to try to understand what others are saying, he just wants to spew his "brilliance" over us all. He's totally hopeless. Nobody but him is allowed to voice any opinion on any topic. Guy's a freakin' egomaniac loon. At least he lives in the right State to feel at home.

Posted by rsp777 on 11/16/2018 12:42:00 PM (view original):
Effective at what, exactly?

Wiping out the assload of red tape and expenditures involved in the current federal tax code for one.

You don't think there will be a huge tax code written for how the sales tax applies?

It's either a necessity or it's not. Some things may be argued on-and-off the list occasionally, but that should be the end of it. Still too complicated for your dumb azz?

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 10:13:00 AM (view original):
Everything you currently pay state tax for you'd pay a 9% federal tax.

So state sales taxes just go away? Or are we stacking?

We are stacking. Life becomes more expensive but you're effective tax rate goes down to 9% so you may save more. Less beurocracy with complex tax codes and evaders. So your friends who are worth $200mil but pay little when they buy new furniture worth $2mil they pay $180k in federal taxes on it.

A married couple with 2 kids and a household income of $100,000 pays an effective rate of 5% in 2018.

So this plan almost DOUBLES their income taxes and also adds 9% to a lot of things they buy.

Seems like a terrible idea.

By contrast, our second example involves a married couple with two children and total household income of $100,000. Again, this family takes the standard deduction, and all of its income comes from wages and salaries.

For this taxpayer, the standard deduction is double what singles get, at $12,700. The family of four gets four personal exemptions at $4,050 per exemption, which provides another $16,200 in reductions. That brings taxable income down to $71,100. That amount keeps this taxpayer near the upper end of the 15% bracket, and the resulting tax is $9,732.50. Moreover, if the two kids qualify for the child tax credit, then an additional $2,000 in tax savings brings the net down to $7,732.50, or less than 8% of their income as an effective tax rate.

Your delta is not that much 9% vs. 8%. I am trying to shift the taxation burden from production to consumption. Maybe those that earn less would get a higher child tax credit and when they file at year end get a bigger refund or maybe they will be more frugal and not get iPhones and Air Jordans for their kids.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rsp777 on 11/16/2018 12:42:00 PM (view original):
Effective at what, exactly?

Wiping out the assload of red tape and expenditures involved in the current federal tax code for one.

You don't think there will be a huge tax code written for how the sales tax applies?

Same code as the state sales tax now. Should not be too complex IMO.

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 10:13:00 AM (view original):
Everything you currently pay state tax for you'd pay a 9% federal tax.

So state sales taxes just go away? Or are we stacking?

We are stacking. Life becomes more expensive but you're effective tax rate goes down to 9% so you may save more. Less beurocracy with complex tax codes and evaders. So your friends who are worth $200mil but pay little when they buy new furniture worth $2mil they pay $180k in federal taxes on it.

A married couple with 2 kids and a household income of $100,000 pays an effective rate of 5% in 2018.

So this plan almost DOUBLES their income taxes and also adds 9% to a lot of things they buy.

Seems like a terrible idea.

By contrast, our second example involves a married couple with two children and total household income of $100,000. Again, this family takes the standard deduction, and all of its income comes from wages and salaries.

For this taxpayer, the standard deduction is double what singles get, at $12,700. The family of four gets four personal exemptions at $4,050 per exemption, which provides another $16,200 in reductions. That brings taxable income down to $71,100. That amount keeps this taxpayer near the upper end of the 15% bracket, and the resulting tax is $9,732.50. Moreover, if the two kids qualify for the child tax credit, then an additional $2,000 in tax savings brings the net down to $7,732.50, or less than 8% of their income as an effective tax rate.

Your delta is not that much 9% vs. 8%. I am trying to shift the taxation burden from production to consumption. Maybe those that earn less would get a higher child tax credit and when they file at year end get a bigger refund or maybe they will be more frugal and not get iPhones and Air Jordans for their kids.

Um, that's not the 2018 system. There isn't a personal exemption anymore and the standard deduction is 24,000 for a married couple. Total federal taxes owed: $4739.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 1:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2018 12:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/16/2018 10:13:00 AM (view original):
Everything you currently pay state tax for you'd pay a 9% federal tax.

So state sales taxes just go away? Or are we stacking?

We are stacking. Life becomes more expensive but you're effective tax rate goes down to 9% so you may save more. Less beurocracy with complex tax codes and evaders. So your friends who are worth $200mil but pay little when they buy new furniture worth $2mil they pay $180k in federal taxes on it.

A married couple with 2 kids and a household income of $100,000 pays an effective rate of 5% in 2018.

So this plan almost DOUBLES their income taxes and also adds 9% to a lot of things they buy.

Seems like a terrible idea.

By contrast, our second example involves a married couple with two children and total household income of $100,000. Again, this family takes the standard deduction, and all of its income comes from wages and salaries.

For this taxpayer, the standard deduction is double what singles get, at $12,700. The family of four gets four personal exemptions at $4,050 per exemption, which provides another $16,200 in reductions. That brings taxable income down to $71,100. That amount keeps this taxpayer near the upper end of the 15% bracket, and the resulting tax is $9,732.50. Moreover, if the two kids qualify for the child tax credit, then an additional $2,000 in tax savings brings the net down to $7,732.50, or less than 8% of their income as an effective tax rate.

Your delta is not that much 9% vs. 8%. I am trying to shift the taxation burden from production to consumption. Maybe those that earn less would get a higher child tax credit and when they file at year end get a bigger refund or maybe they will be more frugal and not get iPhones and Air Jordans for their kids.

Um, that's not the 2018 system. There isn't a personal exemption anymore and the standard deduction is 24,000 for a married couple. Total federal taxes owed: $4739.

Good point. So its better for them under Trump? Hmmmm....even so I like the 9/9/9 they would just get a much bigger refund, right? Or be more frugal. Making only $100k and raising two kids is very difficult in this day and age. I agree.