Posted by wylie715 on 11/13/2018 5:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 11/13/2018 10:29:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2018 10:20:00 AM (view original):
And prepare to be disappointed. There’s no way any spending cuts get passed.

Since there is no way anyone could survive without some of the handouts they now get?
I know a couple who get Food Stamps who just bought a new $50,000 car.
I know a single Mother who gets WIC checks that just bought a $250,000 home.
Those must be some great handouts; where do I sign-up to survive?

yeah, there are always going to be people who take advantage of the system. Should the people who need those programs to survive be punished because some others take advantage of the programs? No, the people who game the system should be held accountable.

I know a couple who are literally worth hundreds of millions of dollars who pay virtually no income tax because they exploit deduction rules. Should we eliminate deductions for all rich people based on the actions of a few?

Those must be great tax breaks. Where do I sign up for zero tax liability?

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2018 9:59:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 11/13/2018 5:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 11/13/2018 10:29:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2018 10:20:00 AM (view original):
And prepare to be disappointed. There’s no way any spending cuts get passed.

Since there is no way anyone could survive without some of the handouts they now get?
I know a couple who get Food Stamps who just bought a new $50,000 car.
I know a single Mother who gets WIC checks that just bought a $250,000 home.
Those must be some great handouts; where do I sign-up to survive?

yeah, there are always going to be people who take advantage of the system. Should the people who need those programs to survive be punished because some others take advantage of the programs? No, the people who game the system should be held accountable.

I know a couple who are literally worth hundreds of millions of dollars who pay virtually no income tax because they exploit deduction rules. Should we eliminate deductions for all rich people based on the actions of a few?

Those must be great tax breaks. Where do I sign up for zero tax liability?

How do they avoid the AMT? Are they worth hundreds of millions based on RE but don't earn that much?

Maybe we should tax them at 99%. Bet they'd pay then, right b_l?
I hate all the income tax BS and favor a flat sales tax. No inequality or loopholes for anybody.
Thanks for totally changing the topic instead of incessantly arguing about one where you know you are wrong. Pleasant change for you.

I was a huge Herman Cain fan. 9/9/9.

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/14/2018 1:53:00 PM (view original):
I was a huge Herman Cain fan. 9/9/9.

The Cain tax plan was a bad one.

If we actually had the opportunity to start from scratch, a simple land value tax would be the best way to go.

It really would solve all the problems conservatives and liberals have with the current system. It wouldn't discourage investment, it wouldn't disproportionately impact poor people.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2018 2:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/14/2018 1:53:00 PM (view original):
I was a huge Herman Cain fan. 9/9/9.

The Cain tax plan was a bad one.

If we actually had the opportunity to start from scratch, a simple land value tax would be the best way to go.

It really would solve all the problems conservatives and liberals have with the current system. It wouldn't discourage investment, it wouldn't disproportionately impact poor people.

Why was the 9/9/9 bad? How would land value tax work if people didn't own land? I frankly don't know enough about it.

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/14/2018 2:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2018 2:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 11/14/2018 1:53:00 PM (view original):
I was a huge Herman Cain fan. 9/9/9.

The Cain tax plan was a bad one.

If we actually had the opportunity to start from scratch, a simple land value tax would be the best way to go.

It really would solve all the problems conservatives and liberals have with the current system. It wouldn't discourage investment, it wouldn't disproportionately impact poor people.

Why was the 9/9/9 bad? How would land value tax work if people didn't own land? I frankly don't know enough about it.

9/9/9 was bad for several reasons. It was never fully fleshed out but reducing income and corporate taxes to 9% would demolish tax revenue. Then you'd hope to make it up through a VAT that would raise the tax burden on lower and middle income households.

Anytime someone proposes a full-scale reform of the tax code, they should have to address the question of how they are shifting the tax burden. If we take as a given, for the sake of argument, that we need to maintain current revenue levels, how does the new plan impact how that burden is distributed?

If the top 5%/10%/20% income households currently pay 50%/60%/70% of the federal tax burden (those are just stand-in numbers, I don't have the actual figures in front of me), does the new plan reduce that burden and push it on to lower income households? If not, is there some other problem that it solves?

---

Regarding the land value tax, it wouldn't tax people that don't own land. But, realistically, landlords would pass along the tax to their tenants like they do with property taxes now (not directly but with higher rent). It will never happen. We can't start from scratch and there will never be a change like that.

I see. Thank you.

I liked the 9/9/9 concept. Perhaps the numbers would need to be altered but a federal consuption (one time) tax I thought was a great way to capture tax evaders. Even drug dealers who make their $$ illegally have to buy things and they would be paying the 9% like everyone else. I actually am not against higher taxes in an optimal world. But I don't trust that the beurocrats would spend it wisely. I am more for privatization. I of course understand that this is not feasible.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2018 9:59:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 11/13/2018 5:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 11/13/2018 10:29:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2018 10:20:00 AM (view original):
And prepare to be disappointed. There’s no way any spending cuts get passed.

Since there is no way anyone could survive without some of the handouts they now get?
I know a couple who get Food Stamps who just bought a new $50,000 car.
I know a single Mother who gets WIC checks that just bought a $250,000 home.
Those must be some great handouts; where do I sign-up to survive?

yeah, there are always going to be people who take advantage of the system. Should the people who need those programs to survive be punished because some others take advantage of the programs? No, the people who game the system should be held accountable.

I know a couple who are literally worth hundreds of millions of dollars who pay virtually no income tax because they exploit deduction rules. Should we eliminate deductions for all rich people based on the actions of a few?

Those must be great tax breaks. Where do I sign up for zero tax liability?

Yes, we most certainly should eliminate all deductions. I'm a big proponent of that. Taxes shouldn't be used for social engineering. They should be used to fund the government.

Posted by strikeout26 on 11/14/2018 4:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2018 9:59:00 AM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 11/13/2018 5:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 11/13/2018 10:29:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/13/2018 10:20:00 AM (view original):
And prepare to be disappointed. There’s no way any spending cuts get passed.

Since there is no way anyone could survive without some of the handouts they now get?
I know a couple who get Food Stamps who just bought a new $50,000 car.
I know a single Mother who gets WIC checks that just bought a $250,000 home.
Those must be some great handouts; where do I sign-up to survive?

yeah, there are always going to be people who take advantage of the system. Should the people who need those programs to survive be punished because some others take advantage of the programs? No, the people who game the system should be held accountable.

I know a couple who are literally worth hundreds of millions of dollars who pay virtually no income tax because they exploit deduction rules. Should we eliminate deductions for all rich people based on the actions of a few?

Those must be great tax breaks. Where do I sign up for zero tax liability?

Yes, we most certainly should eliminate all deductions. I'm a big proponent of that. Taxes shouldn't be used for social engineering. They should be used to fund the government.

Obviously, you know my post was sarcastic, but do you really think we should eliminate ALL deductions?

If you run a business, should you be able to deduct your payroll?

Nope and running businesses is what I do for a living. Payroll tax deduction is designed to encourage more hiring. That is not what the role of taxes should be. Again, taxes should be used to fund the government and nothing more.

If deductions were eliminated, you could lower tax brackets without affecting revenue, so people still wouldn't be paying that much more.

Posted by strikeout26 on 11/14/2018 8:06:00 PM (view original):
Nope and running businesses is what I do for a living. Payroll tax deduction is designed to encourage more hiring. That is not what the role of taxes should be. Again, taxes should be used to fund the government and nothing more.

If deductions were eliminated, you could lower tax brackets without affecting revenue, so people still wouldn't be paying that much more.

Maybe we’re misunderstanding each other. I’ll try an example.

You open a restaurant. In the first year you gross 100,000 (just to make the numbers easy).

From that 100k, you spend:
20,000 on food.
20,000 on rent
50,000 on payroll
15,000 on misc (insurance, utilities, etc)

All of that is currently tax deductible. You lost 5k so you don’t have any tax liability.

The way I understand your position, you should have one more expense: 15% (or whatever) of 100k for taxes.

Okay. You're talking about writing off expenses. I'm following now. You're thinking that i'm saying gross revenue should be taxed for businesses. I think all profits should be taxed.

Sure. The hard part is figuring out the taxable figure.

It’s why people who claim that a flat tax will significantly simplify taxes are full of ****.

I agree, but we have those issues whether deductions are allowed or not.