Wait. I just told you that I got the interview but not the job. Is that not equalizing opportunity and not outcomes?

Tang, there's a large discrepancy between what you have said in the past and what you're saying now. You are a self-proclaimed socialist. Socialism is equalizing outcome. Now you are saying that you are against forced equal outcomes. I'm not sure if you have looked at it from that spectrum or not, but I thought I would point it out.

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/9/2018 2:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/9/2018 1:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/9/2018 1:42:00 PM (view original):
What society? You mean you? Its a disadvantage in the NFL but not in soccer. In some racist places its bad in others its neutral and in others it may be better. I am a Jew so I'll speak for myself.

Most of the time people don't care. Sometimes its held against me. Sometimes it helps me (when dealing with other Jews).

Those who overtly dislike me because of that I just avoid.

I think the dumbest person here is the one you see in the mirror. You live in this fictional world of all people are racist. No. Some are. Most aren't. We have come a long way. IMO.

My kids for example have zero racism in them. None. My wife and I have raised them correctly. Those that do have it were raised incorrectly. Probably by one parent. I can only control what I can control. If I do see blatant racism I will gladly fight against it. However I will not fight against some statistic.

I know English is my 2nd language but hopefully you understand me.

-----------------------------------------------------

What society?

American society

You mean you?

No. America. It's a disadvantage to be black in America.

Its a disadvantage in the NFL but not in soccer.

Being black is a disadvantage in America but not Uganda. We don't live in Uganda.

You live in this fictional world of all people are racist

I never said everyone is racist. I said that society doesn't treat blacks the same as whites. Yeah, that's a very general statement, but it's true. We see it in crime statistics. We see it in employment. We see it in the way, for example, the police get called because three black women are packing up their stuff after a vacation in an Airbnb and the neighbors are suspicious.

If I do see blatant racism I will gladly fight against it.

Unlikely, considering you refuse to acknowledge that racism puts blacks at a disadvantage.

The three women is one incident? I don't believe America is racist.You do. You're entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. Of course there are racist people out there. I am a Jew. If you, bad luck, hate Jews then I will just not deal with you. It doesn't make my life any better or worse. If I apply for a job and the Company doesn't want to hire me because I am a Jew I will work elsewhere. I don't want the Gov't to force the company to hire me because of some quota.

I’m not arguing for government quotas. I’m arguing for recognition of a problem.

All I want you to do is admit that blacks have a disadvantage in American society. We don’t have to agree on a solution.

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/9/2018 3:02:00 PM (view original):
Wait. I just told you that I got the interview but not the job. Is that not equalizing opportunity and not outcomes?

No.

Posted by strikeout26 on 5/9/2018 3:03:00 PM (view original):
Tang, there's a large discrepancy between what you have said in the past and what you're saying now. You are a self-proclaimed socialist. Socialism is equalizing outcome. Now you are saying that you are against forced equal outcomes. I'm not sure if you have looked at it from that spectrum or not, but I thought I would point it out.

Socialism isn't nessesarily about equalizing outcomes and I do not agree with all socialist policy.

Also I hope you saw my responses to your arguments on the other thread.

Posted by tangplay on 5/9/2018 3:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/9/2018 3:02:00 PM (view original):
Wait. I just told you that I got the interview but not the job. Is that not equalizing opportunity and not outcomes?

No.

Then what do you consider that?

Posted by bad_luck on 5/9/2018 3:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/9/2018 2:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/9/2018 1:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/9/2018 1:42:00 PM (view original):
What society? You mean you? Its a disadvantage in the NFL but not in soccer. In some racist places its bad in others its neutral and in others it may be better. I am a Jew so I'll speak for myself.

Most of the time people don't care. Sometimes its held against me. Sometimes it helps me (when dealing with other Jews).

Those who overtly dislike me because of that I just avoid.

I think the dumbest person here is the one you see in the mirror. You live in this fictional world of all people are racist. No. Some are. Most aren't. We have come a long way. IMO.

My kids for example have zero racism in them. None. My wife and I have raised them correctly. Those that do have it were raised incorrectly. Probably by one parent. I can only control what I can control. If I do see blatant racism I will gladly fight against it. However I will not fight against some statistic.

I know English is my 2nd language but hopefully you understand me.

-----------------------------------------------------

What society?

American society

You mean you?

No. America. It's a disadvantage to be black in America.

Its a disadvantage in the NFL but not in soccer.

Being black is a disadvantage in America but not Uganda. We don't live in Uganda.

You live in this fictional world of all people are racist

I never said everyone is racist. I said that society doesn't treat blacks the same as whites. Yeah, that's a very general statement, but it's true. We see it in crime statistics. We see it in employment. We see it in the way, for example, the police get called because three black women are packing up their stuff after a vacation in an Airbnb and the neighbors are suspicious.

If I do see blatant racism I will gladly fight against it.

Unlikely, considering you refuse to acknowledge that racism puts blacks at a disadvantage.

The three women is one incident? I don't believe America is racist.You do. You're entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. Of course there are racist people out there. I am a Jew. If you, bad luck, hate Jews then I will just not deal with you. It doesn't make my life any better or worse. If I apply for a job and the Company doesn't want to hire me because I am a Jew I will work elsewhere. I don't want the Gov't to force the company to hire me because of some quota.

I’m not arguing for government quotas. I’m arguing for recognition of a problem.

All I want you to do is admit that blacks have a disadvantage in American society. We don’t have to agree on a solution.

That is actually a fair statement. Wow.

I think they do but not because of skin color but because of the lack of a two parent household (70%). So yes, I agree with you but not because of skin color.

Happy Medium?

so when a cop pulls over a black dude because he's driving through a white neighborhood...it's because he only had one parent? interesting take.

Ahhhh....so I agreed that policing needs to be fixed. I've been pulled over too and cops are not super friendly. Unfortunately I cannot speak for African Americans because I am not one. But I think policing needs to be revamped all around. I think they need to pull the elderly over more because they are terrible drivers (not all but many).

While your example is valid I don't think this happens as frequently as the media has us believe. But I agree that policing needs to be revamped. Some of the dumbest kids in my HS are now cops. That is nuts.

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/9/2018 3:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/9/2018 3:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/9/2018 2:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 5/9/2018 1:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/9/2018 1:42:00 PM (view original):
What society? You mean you? Its a disadvantage in the NFL but not in soccer. In some racist places its bad in others its neutral and in others it may be better. I am a Jew so I'll speak for myself.

Most of the time people don't care. Sometimes its held against me. Sometimes it helps me (when dealing with other Jews).

Those who overtly dislike me because of that I just avoid.

I think the dumbest person here is the one you see in the mirror. You live in this fictional world of all people are racist. No. Some are. Most aren't. We have come a long way. IMO.

My kids for example have zero racism in them. None. My wife and I have raised them correctly. Those that do have it were raised incorrectly. Probably by one parent. I can only control what I can control. If I do see blatant racism I will gladly fight against it. However I will not fight against some statistic.

I know English is my 2nd language but hopefully you understand me.

-----------------------------------------------------

What society?

American society

You mean you?

No. America. It's a disadvantage to be black in America.

Its a disadvantage in the NFL but not in soccer.

Being black is a disadvantage in America but not Uganda. We don't live in Uganda.

You live in this fictional world of all people are racist

I never said everyone is racist. I said that society doesn't treat blacks the same as whites. Yeah, that's a very general statement, but it's true. We see it in crime statistics. We see it in employment. We see it in the way, for example, the police get called because three black women are packing up their stuff after a vacation in an Airbnb and the neighbors are suspicious.

If I do see blatant racism I will gladly fight against it.

Unlikely, considering you refuse to acknowledge that racism puts blacks at a disadvantage.

The three women is one incident? I don't believe America is racist.You do. You're entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. Of course there are racist people out there. I am a Jew. If you, bad luck, hate Jews then I will just not deal with you. It doesn't make my life any better or worse. If I apply for a job and the Company doesn't want to hire me because I am a Jew I will work elsewhere. I don't want the Gov't to force the company to hire me because of some quota.

I’m not arguing for government quotas. I’m arguing for recognition of a problem.

All I want you to do is admit that blacks have a disadvantage in American society. We don’t have to agree on a solution.

That is actually a fair statement. Wow.

I think they do but not because of skin color but because of the lack of a two parent household (70%). So yes, I agree with you but not because of skin color.

Happy Medium?

Nope. Blacks are at a disadvantage because of skin color.

Agree to disagree.

Even if it is true and say I agree with you. I am not sure what anyone can do about that other than not raise racist kids. But again I think the country is moving in the right direction and that disadvantage is shrinking if it is there at all. Now the one parent issue IS there. And that is what needs to be addressed first and foremost IMO.

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/9/2018 2:36:00 PM (view original):
I said probably. I don't have that evidence. It is my guess.

Let's say you're right. There are too many racists. Can you prove that there are too many racists? No. But let's say there are. How do you make them less racist? By giving certain groups privileges or by treating everyone equally?

Again I cannot speak for African Americans as I am not one. But I can speak for myself and I choose to believe that the world is a good place and getting better every day. I also see Muslims as equals. They see me the same way because I am male. If I were a female. NFW.

Do you disagree?

well, do you admit there are racists out there, because one racist is too many. As far as how you make them less racist, I don't think you or I or anyone else can. They have to come to that decision themselves. Treating everyone equally is the answer in a perfect world, but we don't live in one. While I don't agree with affirmative action, I do see how it was needed originally. Now, not so much.

As far as the world being a good place, I find that harder and harder to believe all the time.

As far as Muslims, I don't know enough to form any kind of opinion. The ones I have met seemed nice enough and did not treat women as second class citizens. That being said, I do know that is the prevalent feeling in the Muslim world. However, when I meet a Muslim, or anyone else, I will not assume they are sexist or racist until they prove they are.

“If it is there at all”

It is. That’s the point. You’re refusing to acknowledge that white privilege exists.

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/9/2018 3:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/9/2018 3:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/9/2018 3:02:00 PM (view original):
Wait. I just told you that I got the interview but not the job. Is that not equalizing opportunity and not outcomes?

No.

Then what do you consider that?

Equalizing outcomes. Getting the interview is an outcome.

Posted by bad_luck on 5/9/2018 4:15:00 PM (view original):
“If it is there at all”

It is. That’s the point. You’re refusing to acknowledge that white privilege exists.

Then how do you explain the fact that black kids from two parent households are more successful than white kids from one parent households?