Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:39:00 PM (view original):
That is not what a leftist is. Man you are dumb.

You definitely believe the following:

• Capitalism, particularly free-market capitalism, only concentrates power in the hands of a wealthy few, destroying the working-class.
• Companies and individuals will not treat ethnic minorities or disenfranchised groups with respect unless compelled (by regulation or incentive) to do so.
• There are some things (like the environment) too important to trust people with doing, and thus the government must control group efforts to tackle these issues.

And #9 and #10 are 100% LEFTIST views. Bernie Sanders was almost a communist. Definitely a Leftist. The cornerstone of his campaign was that there is massive wealth inequality in the US. 100% a Leftist view. Bill Gates is wealthier than I am. He deserves to be. I should not be entitled to more of his wealth just because.

Early in Sanders' career he had praised the Cuban government for their reforms, including widespread education and health care in Cuba....thats your moderate!!?!? LMAO!

• No
• In some cases, but IDK
• Yes

Bernie Sanders is not a leftist, although closer than I am. And sometimes there isn't. Trump doesn't deserve to be wealthier than your parents, Comrade.

#1) Yes. You are too stupid to see it since you always cry about poverty.
#2) By definition that makes you a leftist.
#3) See #2

Trump has the money and my parents do not. He attained that money legally. He deserves whatever he has. Trump has way less money than Mark Cuban. Does Mark Cuban not deserve the money he has? I mean that is crazy talk.

Instead of vilifying the wealthy we should respect them and try to be more like them IMO.

• Crying about poverty? Poverty is bad, right? But when was the last time I blamed capitalism?
• What definition?
• What definition?

Be more like them? You mean have a wealthy father and be gifted everything? You do realize how idiotic that is.

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 12:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:41:00 PM (view original):
SOME degree but the country is not inherently racist. We do have racist people as does every country. Even Liberal France. And yes they are idiotic positions that Tangplay supports yet he claims to be a moderate?!?!?! LMAO!!!!

I am not a moderate. I am left of center.

The country was partially built on slavery. We still have people in the country that hold the Confederacy dearly. We elected a man that has policies that support the notion that whites and white culture is superior to others. We are inherently racist.

#1) Yes. So were many countries. We also abolished slavery. Fought a war over it in fact.
#2) Yes. And they have that right. We also have many more that find that way of thinking putrid.
#3) Nope. He said he wanted to tighten immigration policies and deport illegal aliens That does not make him remotely racist. Now he may be racist but not because of any of his policies.

No moderate would want to get rid of the electoral college. Not one. That is the essence of our Republic.

#1) We abolished slavery but it has deep, inherent roots.
#3) I never said that Trump was racist. I said that his policies match the ideologies of people like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson who believe, according to them, that White culture is inherently superior.

I am not a moderate.

Posted by laramiebob on 4/3/2018 12:49:00 PM (view original):
Well, idiotic is a harsh word............ I didn't necessarily mean it as personal. I'm sure Tangy is a nice young fella.......
But, the Electoral system is fundamentally sound and sacred. It has a purpose and was purposely instilled as the Presidential election LAW by our founding Fathers! It is sacrilege to even THINK of doing away with it.The idea is Treasonous in it's stupidity.

Sanders was a nice fantasy. BUT, he IS a lightweight Socialist if there is such a thing.
BUT, the real problem is he's a lightweight generally. Hasn't got the means to his ends.

We were only one state off, though. Should have looked to Maine instead of Vermont........... Up in Maine there IS a REAL independant who'd make a great President IMO. And his name is Angus. Cool huh? He needs to find a VP candidate named Malcolm and run for POTUS as an outsider, Independent Candidate in 2020. Give us a REAL choice! :-)

Yeah, that was the one knock on Sanders. I just thought he was an honest, good man who spoke what he believed.

You convinced me, Bob. I don't think we should get rid of the electoral college anymore. However, is it treasonous to believe that we should all have equal voting rights?

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 4/3/2018 12:49:00 PM (view original):
Well, idiotic is a harsh word............ I didn't necessarily mean it as personal. I'm sure Tangy is a nice young fella.......
But, the Electoral system is fundamentally sound and sacred. It has a purpose and was purposely instilled as the Presidential election LAW by our founding Fathers! It is sacrilege to even THINK of doing away with it.The idea is Treasonous in it's stupidity.

Sanders was a nice fantasy. BUT, he IS a lightweight Socialist if there is such a thing.
BUT, the real problem is he's a lightweight generally. Hasn't got the means to his ends.

We were only one state off, though. Should have looked to Maine instead of Vermont........... Up in Maine there IS a REAL independant who'd make a great President IMO. And his name is Angus. Cool huh? He needs to find a VP candidate named Malcolm and run for POTUS as an outsider, Independent Candidate in 2020. Give us a REAL choice! :-)

I think idiotic is an appropriate adjective.

I don't care what he believes and I don't care that he is a leftist. But the fact that he cannot even self identify is hilarious to me. I am actually a moderate who leans left. That is why I laugh when he describes himself as such.

Seriously. Moderate who leans left. You are ******* insane. I am not a moderate. I am left of center. Not a leftist.

You are right of center.

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 12:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 12:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 4/3/2018 12:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/2/2018 8:28:00 PM (view original):
Just as it seems we talk sense into CCCP, he goes and gets another dose of bullshit, reversing all our hard work.

CCCP's views make perfect sense to him, just as yours make perfect sense to you. I'm not trying to change his or anyone else's point of view. It won't happen. CCCP believes what he believes and he has every right to do so. You believe what you believe and have every right to do so.

Truth

Except I am not a hypocrite while Tangplay is.

Wylie - I agree. I state my point of view. All I was saying is that we just had a conversation where we came to a conclusion, and the next day he reverts back to posting the same stuff dino and I disproved the day before. It is frustrating.

And I am not a hypocrite.

Tangplay:

1. Gov't should stay out of people's private lives. If a man wants to marry a man so be it
2. Gov't should regulate healthcare. If an MD wants to charge $1k for an X-Ray they should not be allowed to do so. Free markets are terrible.
3. Gov't should regulate who employers hire. Companies are inherently racist.

So for me Gov't should not interfere when I feel like it but should interfere well...when I feel like it.

Hypocrite!

My stance:

Gov't should not interfere period. Let free markets reign. Stay out of my private life!

But there is a fundamental difference between #s 1 and 2. #1 is very personal. #2 is healthcare, something people need to survive. It is life-and-death. I don't believe #3 BTW. I don't believe in a certain # of minorities or whatever having to be accepted into a company.

Healthcare is not private life.

Wait so when it comes to laser eye surgery it is unregulated and free markets have resulted in much lower costs for the service. When I got to my MD and ask what the cost is he can tell me. When I sprain my ankle...not life and death then he cannot tell me the cost. You find that acceptable?

OK how about the min wage. You want the Gov't to raise it. I say stay out of it. Let Capitalism decide. Is that not a personal choice for a business owner?

Money is pretty personal too? Don't you think?

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 12:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 12:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 11:46:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dino27 on 4/2/2018 7:41:00 PM (view original):
just so we can all be on the same page.....someone who is left of center is not a leftist.
someone right of center is not alt right..

You are left of center. Tangplay is a LEFTIST.

Let's be clear here, dino.

Explain why I am a leftist when dino is farther left than I am.

#1) You want to get rid of the Electoral College
#2) You want Free Education
#3) You identify with Bernie Sanders
#4) You keep crying about white privilege.
#5) You practice identity politics
#6) You are anti military and a self-identified pacifist
#7) You are anti capitalism
#8) You want an even bigger Gov't aka welfare state
#9) You support highest taxes on the wealthiest
#10) You think America as a society is inherently racist

#1) Yup. Not a leftist thing.
#2) Yup.
#3) I voted for him. He is left of center not a leftist.
#4) Crying? Dino does this too
#5) This is literally what you do. And even if I did this, it would be the opposite of a leftist.
#6) Anti-military? No. Pacifist? yes. I am a Christian not a leftist.
#7) Incorrect
#8) Incorrect
#9) Correct. Not leftist.
#10) Correct. Facts not leftist.

Again, I do not agree with the left on everything. I have moderate views on a lot of things. I agree with the left on a majority of issues. I am left of center, by definition. I don't have far-left views. I am not crying for impeachment, saying the election was rigged, saying Trump is a fascist, a communist, or a radical feminist.

i agree with tangplay except pacifist but i am also not a warmonger.
if america is not inherently racist when did that cease.....before jackie robinson...i think not.
before MLK was assasinated...i think not.
before the archie bunker era...i think not...
when obama ran...clear existing millions upon millions of people believed in the racist birther lie
and being black was still anemployment disadvantage.
has racism declined .....thankfully it has significantly but it is still a struggle.....and it is a struggle because we have a racist history......it takes a long time in this country to end racism.
look at the violent push back against banning confed statues and flags.......states not honoring mlk........birthers........nationwide police violence against black people.......there is a lot more work to be done.

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 12:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 12:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 4/3/2018 12:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/2/2018 8:28:00 PM (view original):
Just as it seems we talk sense into CCCP, he goes and gets another dose of bullshit, reversing all our hard work.

CCCP's views make perfect sense to him, just as yours make perfect sense to you. I'm not trying to change his or anyone else's point of view. It won't happen. CCCP believes what he believes and he has every right to do so. You believe what you believe and have every right to do so.

Truth

Except I am not a hypocrite while Tangplay is.

Wylie - I agree. I state my point of view. All I was saying is that we just had a conversation where we came to a conclusion, and the next day he reverts back to posting the same stuff dino and I disproved the day before. It is frustrating.

And I am not a hypocrite.

Tangplay:

1. Gov't should stay out of people's private lives. If a man wants to marry a man so be it
2. Gov't should regulate healthcare. If an MD wants to charge $1k for an X-Ray they should not be allowed to do so. Free markets are terrible.
3. Gov't should regulate who employers hire. Companies are inherently racist.

So for me Gov't should not interfere when I feel like it but should interfere well...when I feel like it.

Hypocrite!

My stance:

Gov't should not interfere period. Let free markets reign. Stay out of my private life!

But there is a fundamental difference between #s 1 and 2. #1 is very personal. #2 is healthcare, something people need to survive. It is life-and-death. I don't believe #3 BTW. I don't believe in a certain # of minorities or whatever having to be accepted into a company.

Healthcare is not private life.

Wait so when it comes to laser eye surgery it is unregulated and free markets have resulted in much lower costs for the service. When I got to my MD and ask what the cost is he can tell me. When I sprain my ankle...not life and death then he cannot tell me the cost. You find that acceptable?

OK how about the min wage. You want the Gov't to raise it. I say stay out of it. Let Capitalism decide. Is that not a personal choice for a business owner?

Money is pretty personal too? Don't you think?

Yeah but free markets don't always result in lower costs. Many times it results in costs raising and bad products because of collusion or monopolies, etc. And when it is up to capitalism, the goal is profits, not better care and better society.

I don't want the government to raise the minimum wage. I support a minimum wage but am against raising it. And it isn't a personal choice. It affects those under your employ.

If money was personal we wouldn't pay taxes.

The problem with the healthcare system as it is currently (under Capitalistic principles of Profiteering) is the DELIVERY system.
We have the FINEST medicine in the WORLD, by Far!!! But, HOW we deliver that care to the people is complete lunacy!!!
Profit is fine. BUT, in healthcare, there is profit at EVERY step and their are a million stairways! hence you end up paying $50.00 (50 BUCKS) for a 49 cent plastic water Pitcher that they bring you in your Hospital room.

And HOW is it fair or equitable for Clinics, Doctors, and Hospitals to make reimbursement deals with the FEW (monopolistic) health insurers setting the repayment for a procedure (such as a simple blood test) that results in the Insurer's paying (for example) $2.59 for a specific blood test BUT if you are an uninsured PATIENT that same test will be billed to you at 20 TIMES that amount (or more)!

I have stents in my arteries. They were placed their during surgery. While insured. The total cost for my multiple procedures was (supposedly) over a quarter million bucks!!! that's what I would have been billed and required to pay, BUT my insurer only had to pay maybe a tenth of that because of the "contract" for re-payment they signed with the healthcare provider!! It's complete bullshit! And totally immoral to be charging PATIENTS 10 times MORE than the procedure should actually have to cost!! If they can provide the service to Aetna for $2.59 they can perform it for ALL of us for $2.59.

And the industry is so large and so powerful that there isn't anyone OTHER than the Government to "tear it down" and rebuild it in an efficient manner with the intent of providing quality healthcare with the PATIENT as the focus, not as many profit levels as we can figure out so's we can milk as much money out of these dummies as we can.........which seems to be the purpose of the current Delivery system. End of rant.

Posted by dino27 on 4/3/2018 1:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 12:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 12:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 11:46:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dino27 on 4/2/2018 7:41:00 PM (view original):
just so we can all be on the same page.....someone who is left of center is not a leftist.
someone right of center is not alt right..

You are left of center. Tangplay is a LEFTIST.

Let's be clear here, dino.

Explain why I am a leftist when dino is farther left than I am.

#1) You want to get rid of the Electoral College
#2) You want Free Education
#3) You identify with Bernie Sanders
#4) You keep crying about white privilege.
#5) You practice identity politics
#6) You are anti military and a self-identified pacifist
#7) You are anti capitalism
#8) You want an even bigger Gov't aka welfare state
#9) You support highest taxes on the wealthiest
#10) You think America as a society is inherently racist

#1) Yup. Not a leftist thing.
#2) Yup.
#3) I voted for him. He is left of center not a leftist.
#4) Crying? Dino does this too
#5) This is literally what you do. And even if I did this, it would be the opposite of a leftist.
#6) Anti-military? No. Pacifist? yes. I am a Christian not a leftist.
#7) Incorrect
#8) Incorrect
#9) Correct. Not leftist.
#10) Correct. Facts not leftist.

Again, I do not agree with the left on everything. I have moderate views on a lot of things. I agree with the left on a majority of issues. I am left of center, by definition. I don't have far-left views. I am not crying for impeachment, saying the election was rigged, saying Trump is a fascist, a communist, or a radical feminist.

i agree with tangplay except pacifist but i am also not a warmonger.
if america is not inherently racist when did that cease.....before jackie robinson...i think not.
before MLK was assasinated...i think not.
before the archie bunker era...i think not...
when obama ran...clear existing millions upon millions of people believed in the racist birther lie
and being black was still anemployment disadvantage.
has racism declined .....thankfully it has significantly but it is still a struggle.....and it is a struggle because we have a racist history......it takes a long time in this country to end racism.
look at the violent push back against banning confed statues and flags.......states not honoring mlk........birthers........nationwide police violence against black people.......there is a lot more work to be done.

Dino, would you say that you are farther left than I am? I would.

I think the closest thing we have to a moderate here would be Bob and Wylie.

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 12:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:39:00 PM (view original):
That is not what a leftist is. Man you are dumb.

You definitely believe the following:

• Capitalism, particularly free-market capitalism, only concentrates power in the hands of a wealthy few, destroying the working-class.
• Companies and individuals will not treat ethnic minorities or disenfranchised groups with respect unless compelled (by regulation or incentive) to do so.
• There are some things (like the environment) too important to trust people with doing, and thus the government must control group efforts to tackle these issues.

And #9 and #10 are 100% LEFTIST views. Bernie Sanders was almost a communist. Definitely a Leftist. The cornerstone of his campaign was that there is massive wealth inequality in the US. 100% a Leftist view. Bill Gates is wealthier than I am. He deserves to be. I should not be entitled to more of his wealth just because.

Early in Sanders' career he had praised the Cuban government for their reforms, including widespread education and health care in Cuba....thats your moderate!!?!? LMAO!

• No
• In some cases, but IDK
• Yes

Bernie Sanders is not a leftist, although closer than I am. And sometimes there isn't. Trump doesn't deserve to be wealthier than your parents, Comrade.

#1) Yes. You are too stupid to see it since you always cry about poverty.
#2) By definition that makes you a leftist.
#3) See #2

Trump has the money and my parents do not. He attained that money legally. He deserves whatever he has. Trump has way less money than Mark Cuban. Does Mark Cuban not deserve the money he has? I mean that is crazy talk.

Instead of vilifying the wealthy we should respect them and try to be more like them IMO.

• Crying about poverty? Poverty is bad, right? But when was the last time I blamed capitalism?
• What definition?
• What definition?

Be more like them? You mean have a wealthy father and be gifted everything? You do realize how idiotic that is.

Gifted? Hmmm....do you know how many people squander their gifts? He actually invested it and made more out if it. Don't belittle that talent. I see people squander their $$ all the time. You would be surprised. Inheritance does not equal success.

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 1:06:00 PM (view original):
I think the closest thing we have to a moderate here would be Bob and Wylie.

???

How am I not moderate? LOL

Bob just admitted he is a liberal as is wylie.

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 1:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 12:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 12:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 12:39:00 PM (view original):
That is not what a leftist is. Man you are dumb.

You definitely believe the following:

• Capitalism, particularly free-market capitalism, only concentrates power in the hands of a wealthy few, destroying the working-class.
• Companies and individuals will not treat ethnic minorities or disenfranchised groups with respect unless compelled (by regulation or incentive) to do so.
• There are some things (like the environment) too important to trust people with doing, and thus the government must control group efforts to tackle these issues.

And #9 and #10 are 100% LEFTIST views. Bernie Sanders was almost a communist. Definitely a Leftist. The cornerstone of his campaign was that there is massive wealth inequality in the US. 100% a Leftist view. Bill Gates is wealthier than I am. He deserves to be. I should not be entitled to more of his wealth just because.

Early in Sanders' career he had praised the Cuban government for their reforms, including widespread education and health care in Cuba....thats your moderate!!?!? LMAO!

• No
• In some cases, but IDK
• Yes

Bernie Sanders is not a leftist, although closer than I am. And sometimes there isn't. Trump doesn't deserve to be wealthier than your parents, Comrade.

#1) Yes. You are too stupid to see it since you always cry about poverty.
#2) By definition that makes you a leftist.
#3) See #2

Trump has the money and my parents do not. He attained that money legally. He deserves whatever he has. Trump has way less money than Mark Cuban. Does Mark Cuban not deserve the money he has? I mean that is crazy talk.

Instead of vilifying the wealthy we should respect them and try to be more like them IMO.

• Crying about poverty? Poverty is bad, right? But when was the last time I blamed capitalism?
• What definition?
• What definition?

Be more like them? You mean have a wealthy father and be gifted everything? You do realize how idiotic that is.

Gifted? Hmmm....do you know how many people squander their gifts? He actually invested it and made more out if it. Don't belittle that talent. I see people squander their $$ all the time. You would be surprised. Inheritance does not equal success.

Of course not. But you would agree that it is much easier for people who receive millions on inheritance to invest and make money, and eventually be successful? From what you have told me, your parents worked much harder than Trump ever will.

Posted by cccp1014 on 4/3/2018 1:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 4/3/2018 1:06:00 PM (view original):
I think the closest thing we have to a moderate here would be Bob and Wylie.

???

How am I not moderate? LOL

Bob just admitted he is a liberal as is wylie.

You lean right on almost every single issue. You disagree with me on almost every issue. I am left. You are right. We are opposites of the spectrum.

I am a liberal on some issues in the "classic" definition of the word. Like Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were liberals.

The founding documents are considered "liberal" governing precepts.

In reality, it is more like. I am liberal on MOST social issues, and I am a fiscal conservative on MANY (if not most) issues.
I used to identify as Libertarian but cannot anymore because SOME of that Party's principle's I believe to be sheerly nuts!
For example, I don't want the Grand Canyon national Park to be sold off and managed privately for profit. That would also be lunacy and I would strap myself personally to some Ponderosa somewhere close to the rim and refuse to come down ala Robinson Jeffers or something.............