LEAVE MY ELEVATOR ALONE Topic

Posted by dino27 on 3/19/2018 10:42:00 AM (view original):
there have been numerous studies.....voter fraud is negligible.......so what is the purpose for what the gop is doing......c'mon man !
Kris Kobach’s Voting Sham Gets Exposed in Court
3/19/2018 10:44 AM
There's by far, more people that have an onerous time getting a document to vote, than people who commit voter fraud in the way you lay out.
3/19/2018 10:45 AM
Posted by cccp1014 on 3/19/2018 10:38:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 3/19/2018 10:36:00 AM (view original):
Posted by cccp1014 on 3/19/2018 10:33:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 3/19/2018 10:32:00 AM (view original):
Posted by cccp1014 on 3/19/2018 10:25:00 AM (view original):
Well you guys get voter ID cards in WA we get nothing in MA. I am being 100% frank. When I go to vote, some 90 year old lady asks for my name and street address. She then crosses me off and I go and vote. I could easily say I am Joe Smith from a different street and she would not no the difference. I can then come back and say I am me 3 hours later when a different old lady is at the desk and vote again. The process is broken in MA.

How do you think we should fix this gaffe?

THERE IS NOTHING TO FIX. THIS NEVER HAPPENS.
Of course it happens. Voter fraud is fairly prevalent. You are just an ignorant fool.
There were about 7 instances since 2000. Cite sources?
https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/heritage-explains/voter-fraud

You are an idiot. This never gets old.
https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud
3/19/2018 10:45 AM
There's nothing broken, what's there to fix?
3/19/2018 10:45 AM
Posted by dino27 on 3/19/2018 10:39:00 AM (view original):
trickle down economy with massive spending......trying it again under trump........it leads to eventual meltdown......now factor in intentional meltdown of health insurance markets........if we have tarrifs that will be another dagger.
danger.. will robinson...danger!!
Again you are just using emotion. None of this is happening. Insurance companies had historic profits under the ACA it did not trickle down to the common man. If you want to nationalize health insurance then do it but the ACA was insane and only helped the insurance companies. There is no danger. Corporate confidence has not been this high since 2005. Are you saying you're smarter than me and the FT.com?

Come on man.
3/19/2018 10:46 AM
Heritage foundation? LOL, you couldn't find anything more partisan or bought by dollars?
3/19/2018 10:46 AM
I am following the Kasich stuff closely ;)
3/19/2018 10:46 AM
Posted by crazystengel on 3/19/2018 10:44:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dino27 on 3/19/2018 10:42:00 AM (view original):
there have been numerous studies.....voter fraud is negligible.......so what is the purpose for what the gop is doing......c'mon man !
Kris Kobach’s Voting Sham Gets Exposed in Court
ny times wont let me read because i have a subscription to wapo.
3/19/2018 10:46 AM
Posted by cccp1014 on 3/19/2018 10:46:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dino27 on 3/19/2018 10:39:00 AM (view original):
trickle down economy with massive spending......trying it again under trump........it leads to eventual meltdown......now factor in intentional meltdown of health insurance markets........if we have tarrifs that will be another dagger.
danger.. will robinson...danger!!
Again you are just using emotion. None of this is happening. Insurance companies had historic profits under the ACA it did not trickle down to the common man. If you want to nationalize health insurance then do it but the ACA was insane and only helped the insurance companies. There is no danger. Corporate confidence has not been this high since 2005. Are you saying you're smarter than me and the FT.com?

Come on man.
He knows the difference between a credit and deduction. Nor did he take 14+ pages of arguing to be talked into maybe he was wrong about credits/deductions.



You make the call...
3/19/2018 10:48 AM
Posted by The Taint on 3/19/2018 10:45:00 AM (view original):
There's nothing broken, what's there to fix?
When dead people vote something is broken.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/06/29/virginia-dead-people-voters/

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/dead-people-voting-in-colorado

https://nypost.com/2017/07/14/the-vote-fraud-that-democrats-refuse-to-see/

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/08/election-fraud-registered-voters-outnumber-eligible-voters-462-counties/

https://www.projectveritas.com/dead-people-receive-ballots/

3/19/2018 10:48 AM
Project Veritas?



Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
3/19/2018 10:49 AM
Posted by The Taint on 3/19/2018 10:48:00 AM (view original):
Posted by cccp1014 on 3/19/2018 10:46:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dino27 on 3/19/2018 10:39:00 AM (view original):
trickle down economy with massive spending......trying it again under trump........it leads to eventual meltdown......now factor in intentional meltdown of health insurance markets........if we have tarrifs that will be another dagger.
danger.. will robinson...danger!!
Again you are just using emotion. None of this is happening. Insurance companies had historic profits under the ACA it did not trickle down to the common man. If you want to nationalize health insurance then do it but the ACA was insane and only helped the insurance companies. There is no danger. Corporate confidence has not been this high since 2005. Are you saying you're smarter than me and the FT.com?

Come on man.
He knows the difference between a credit and deduction. Nor did he take 14+ pages of arguing to be talked into maybe he was wrong about credits/deductions.



You make the call...
Don't be a d*ck. I admitted that it was a one time error because I double paid my SS as I switched jobs. That was a $1 for $1 adjustment.
I conceded because I was tired of the pointless argument, which was that my data was stronger than Tang's.

Are you seriously arguing that the economy is in bad shape right now?
3/19/2018 10:50 AM
From Snopes: Political conservatives have claimed on multiple occasions that Democrats have taken advantage of what they describe as widespread voter fraud. However, the majority of those claims have either lacked evidence or been revealed to be misrepresentations. Regardless, this particular situation would fall under the banner of registration fraud, not voter fraud.
3/19/2018 10:50 AM
Posted by The Taint on 3/19/2018 10:49:00 AM (view original):
Project Veritas?



Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
So your sources are fine but others are not? Typical Liberal.
3/19/2018 10:50 AM
Posted by dino27 on 3/19/2018 10:46:00 AM (view original):
Posted by crazystengel on 3/19/2018 10:44:00 AM (view original):
Posted by dino27 on 3/19/2018 10:42:00 AM (view original):
there have been numerous studies.....voter fraud is negligible.......so what is the purpose for what the gop is doing......c'mon man !
Kris Kobach’s Voting Sham Gets Exposed in Court
ny times wont let me read because i have a subscription to wapo.
dino, all you've got to do is clear you history/cookies.

But here's the entire article for you:

The modern American crusade against voter fraud has always been propelled by faith. That is, an insistent belief in things unseen — things like voters who show up at the polls pretending to be someone else, or noncitizens who try to register and vote illegally.

Fraud like this is so rare as to be almost unmeasurable, and yet its specter has led to dozens of strict new laws around the country. Passed in the name of electoral integrity, the laws, which usually require voters to present photo IDs at the polls or provide proof of citizenship to register, make voting harder, if not impossible, for tens of thousands of people — disproportionately minorities and others who tend to vote Democratic.

The high priest of this faith-based movement is Kris Kobach, the Kansas secretary of state and gubernatorial candidate who has been preaching his gospel of deception to Republican lawmakers for years. He has won plenty of converts, even though he has failed to identify more than a tiny handful of possible cases of fraud. In his eight years as secretary of state, he has secured a total of nine convictions, only one of which was for illegal voting by a noncitizen; most were for double-voting by older Republican men.

For the past two weeks, however, Mr. Kobach has been forced to make his case in a far more rigorous setting — the fact-finding process of a federal trial. In a Kansas City courtroom, Mr. Kobach and his fellow true believers have struggled to defend a 2013 state law that requires prospective voters to prove their citizenship before they can register.

It has not gone well for Mr. Kobach. The lawsuit, brought by the American Civil Liberties Union on behalf of Kansas residents who were blocked from voting under the new law, contends that the legislation violates federal law, which requires only that prospective voters attest to their citizenship under penalty of perjury. Meanwhile, it disenfranchised tens of thousands of Kansans, who were disproportionately younger voters or voters with no party affiliation.

And how many noncitizens did the law stop from voting? Squint really hard. One would think that after all these years, Mr. Kobach would have something to show for his dogged efforts. Yet according to his own witnesses, Kansas, which has 1.8 million registered voters, has identified 129 noncitizens it says registered or tried to register since 2000. Of those 129 people, 11 actually voted, and it’s not clear how many of these cases represent intentional fraud, as opposed to honest mistakes or clerical errors. But Mr. Kobach is convinced, calling these findings “the tip of the iceberg.” If so, the iceberg is melting fast.

Mr. Kobach’s game may work with partisan lawmakers, but not with federal judges. At the beginning of the trial, Mr. Kobach, who is representing himself, tried to introduce what he said were new data on the number of Kansans whose voter registrations were suspended for lacking proof of citizenship. Judge Julie Robinson of Federal District Court said no, reminding him that the deadline for introducing pretrial evidence had passed the night before. “We’re not going to have a trial by ambush here,” the judge said when Mr. Kobach tried again a few days later.

How does it feel to have your papers out of order, Mr. Kobach?

Of course, restrictive voting laws like these have never been about protecting electoral integrity. They’re about keeping certain people away from the ballot box, often based on who they are — or are assumed to be. On Tuesday, one of Mr. Kobach’s witnesses, a political scientist, Jesse Richman, testified that up to 18,000 noncitizens have registered or tried to register in Kansas. When the A.C.L.U.’s lawyer asked him about his methods for analyzing the state’s list of suspended voters, Mr. Richman said that, among other things, he flagged foreign-sounding names. What about a name like “Carlos Murguia,” the lawyer asked. Would he flag that one? Yes, Mr. Richman said. He was then informed that Carlos Murguia is a federal district judge who sits in the courthouse where the trial is being held.

It all seems like a big joke until you remember that laws like these have already had their intended effect. In Kansas, more than 22,000 people who tried to register had their applications suspended or canceled for not having proof of citizenship. And in Wisconsin, which President Trump won by fewer than 23,000 votes, a strict voter-ID law kept at least 17,000 voters from the polls in 2016.

Remember also that just days after the 2016 election, Mr. Kobach scored a meeting with President-elect Trump in which he urged the passage of a nationwide proof-of-citizenship requirement. A few months later, Mr. Trump appointed Mr. Kobach to lead his so-called election integrity commission. In January, after months of futility and infighting, the commission folded, having made no findings and issued no recommendations. No surprise there — there’s virtually nothing to find. There has been no epidemic of noncitizens voting, despite Mr. Trump’s baseless claim (endorsed by Mr. Kobach) that he lost the popular vote only because of millions of illegal voters. And there are hardly any examples of in-person voter fraud, the only kind that could conceivably be stopped by voter-ID laws. A federal judge once compared such laws to using “a sledgehammer to hit either a real or imaginary fly on a glass coffee table.”

Unfortunately, the courts have not always brought the appropriate degree of skepticism to these laws. The Supreme Court upheld the first voter-ID law it considered, in 2008, even though the Indiana lawmakers who passed it had not identified a single case of fraud that the law would have prevented. Former Justice John Paul Stevens, who wrote the opinion in that case, later called it a “fairly unfortunate decision.” Richard Posner, a former federal appeals court judge who also upheld the Indiana law, later said that voter-ID laws are “now widely regarded as a means of voter suppression rather than of fraud prevention.”

More recently, courts have gotten better about questioning the evidence and rationale for these laws, striking down some of the strictest ones, in Texas and North Carolina, for deliberately discriminating against minority voters. That’s the right approach. These laws masquerade as common-sense measures, but they are in truth anti-democratic shams, and it is gratifying to see them unravel in the harsh light of a federal courtroom.

Kobach is one sleazy character.

3/19/2018 10:51 AM
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