I guess the question is: Is Edgar Martinez's OPS on pitches 1-2" out of the strike zone... better than Jay Buhner's (or whoever hit behind Edgar) OPS. If it is, then yes, he should've swung more at borderline pitches. Since none of us can know this, we're all stupid for participating in this discussion at all.

Oh, and being a lifetime Giants fan, Bonds wasn't walking on borderline pitches. Pitchers didn't come anywhere near the strike zone on many occasions, preferring to deal with Jeff Kent... That's why "walking too much" never came up with Bonds.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/14/2017 3:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2017 3:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/14/2017 3:32:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2017 2:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 11/14/2017 2:42:00 PM (view original):
I'm no big MikeT fan, but I think what Mike was trying to say is he would have liked to see EM swing the bat a little more often. He didn't say walks were bad. They're not. But hits are better. I know it wouldn't be a hit every time EM swung the bat instead of walked, but I'm sure it would have happened some of the time. That being said, Mike is still an idiot.

Well...mike's exact words were:

"he walked a great deal...bad"

Mike might not be saying "walks are bad" but he certainly is saying that it was bad for EM to walk a great deal.

Thanks. Because, if you can recall, we were discussing his HOF-credentials.

If he wanted to be in the HOF, he needed to hit more, walk less. Because he's not Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig, Bonds, Williams or whoever else you dumbasses are lumping him with.

LOL

You know what else those guys did?

Bring a glove to the game.

That’s a legit argument. So is the fact that he had a relatively short career.

“He walked a great deal...bad.” Isn’t. It’s retarded.

Posted by toddcommish on 11/14/2017 3:41:00 PM (view original):
I guess the question is: Is Edgar Martinez's OPS on pitches 1-2" out of the strike zone... better than Jay Buhner's (or whoever hit behind Edgar) OPS. If it is, then yes, he should've swung more at borderline pitches. Since none of us can know this, we're all stupid for participating in this discussion at all.

Oh, and being a lifetime Giants fan, Bonds wasn't walking on borderline pitches. Pitchers didn't come anywhere near the strike zone on many occasions, preferring to deal with Jeff Kent... That's why "walking too much" never came up with Bonds.

And yet the consensus among the retard contingent seems to be that pitchers came right after Edgar because they were way more afraid of Jay Buhner. That would be equivalent to saying pitchers would rather face Bonds than Kent.

"One of the biggest supporters of Martinez’s HOF candidacy is former teammate Randy Johnson, who was inducted in 2015. “The first person on my ballot who would get my vote is Edgar,” said Johnson. “I’ve faced a lot of Hall of Fame hitters, and . . . Edgar is the best hitter that I ever saw.”

Mariano Rivera also called Edgar the best hitter he ever saw. Edgar slashed .579/.652/.1.053 against him.

Pretty high endorsements.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/14/2017 3:38:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2014 12:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 11:21:00 AM (view original):
Well, you seem to be compartmentalizing my argument.

1. I think he played long enough and I think he had a nice run of "peak years." HOF eligible.
2. He was a pretty good hitter but, unfortunately, he didn't play the field. That's a mark in the bad column.
3. He was a 3-4-5 hitter but, IMO, he walked a great deal. Was he pitched around? Unlikely with A-Rod and Griffey in the line-up. Bad, IMO.
4. It's not like when he swung, he made connection. He struck out once every 6 AB. Bad.
5. We're speculating but we seem to agree he became a DH to lessen the risk of injury. Bad.

All in all, he was a pretty good hitter. Maybe even really good. But he wasn't dominant at the plate during his peak and he didn't play the field. That's just no HOF material to me.

3) Not making outs is a good thing. Not bad.
4) Who cares? An out is an out.
5) Agreed.

He was very dominant. Probably the best hitter in the AL in 1995 and among the top 5 in 1992, 1996, and 1997, which is pretty good considering his career overlapped Ken Griffey Jr., Alex Rodriguez, Frank Thomas, and Manny Ramirez, four of the greatest hitters of all time.

Nah, Frank Thomas walked too much for me personally

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/14/2017 3:57:00 PM (view original):
"One of the biggest supporters of Martinez’s HOF candidacy is former teammate Randy Johnson, who was inducted in 2015. “The first person on my ballot who would get my vote is Edgar,” said Johnson. “I’ve faced a lot of Hall of Fame hitters, and . . . Edgar is the best hitter that I ever saw.”

Mariano Rivera also called Edgar the best hitter he ever saw. Edgar slashed .579/.652/.1.053 against him.

Pretty high endorsements.

That's only half his job. The other half is playing in the field. He wasn't a COMPLETE ballplayer. ANY DH should be an exceptional hitter to make up for the fact that that is his ONLY JOB.

I wasn't commenting at all on that. If you feel DH's shouldn't be in the HOF, that's fine.

I'm merely providing support for his abilities as a hitter, to those who suggest he should have somehow done something more at the plate.

Posted by toddcommish on 11/14/2017 4:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/14/2017 3:57:00 PM (view original):
"One of the biggest supporters of Martinez’s HOF candidacy is former teammate Randy Johnson, who was inducted in 2015. “The first person on my ballot who would get my vote is Edgar,” said Johnson. “I’ve faced a lot of Hall of Fame hitters, and . . . Edgar is the best hitter that I ever saw.”

Mariano Rivera also called Edgar the best hitter he ever saw. Edgar slashed .579/.652/.1.053 against him.

Pretty high endorsements.

That's only half his job. The other half is playing in the field. He wasn't a COMPLETE ballplayer. ANY DH should be an exceptional hitter to make up for the fact that that is his ONLY JOB.

I think you can make the argument that Martinez was an exceptional hitter. He's probably a top 50 hitter all time.

All time, hitters with >7500 PAs, EM is:

23rd for wRC+
30th for wOBA
24th in OPS
14th in OBP

On BR's leaderboard (3000 PA min), he's:

42nd in OPS+
77th in WAR

Those are Hall of Fame type rankings. He doesn't have the usually benchmarks (3000 hits, 500 HR) but the dude was pretty clearly an exceptional hitter.

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/14/2017 3:57:00 PM (view original):
"One of the biggest supporters of Martinez’s HOF candidacy is former teammate Randy Johnson, who was inducted in 2015. “The first person on my ballot who would get my vote is Edgar,” said Johnson. “I’ve faced a lot of Hall of Fame hitters, and . . . Edgar is the best hitter that I ever saw.”

Mariano Rivera also called Edgar the best hitter he ever saw. Edgar slashed .579/.652/.1.053 against him.

Pretty high endorsements.

Tommy Hutton was known for being able to hit Tom Seaver consistently throughout his career.

Tommy Hutton for the HOF because he was able to hit an all-time great pitcher?

That depends. Can you produce a quote where Tom Seaver says Tommy Hutton is the best hitter he ever saw? If you can, I'll endorse Tommy for the HOF.

How about a quote from Seaver saying that "I could never figure him out", in reference to Hutton. I can BL it into Seaver saying that Hutton was the best hitter ever.

Posted by tecwrg on 11/14/2017 9:08:00 PM (view original):
How about a quote from Seaver saying that "I could never figure him out", in reference to Hutton. I can BL it into Seaver saying that Hutton was the best hitter ever.

My favorite thing about you, tec, is your absolute devotion to mike. I’ve known husbands and wives that didn’t have each other’s backs like you have mike’s.

It’s sweet. You're willing to defend him no matter what stupid **** he says.

Um, OK.

If you say it, it must be true. After all, you have such an astute knowledge of baseball.

like it or not. DH is part of the game. To ignore that is asinine.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2017 4:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 11/14/2017 4:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 11/14/2017 3:57:00 PM (view original):
"One of the biggest supporters of Martinez’s HOF candidacy is former teammate Randy Johnson, who was inducted in 2015. “The first person on my ballot who would get my vote is Edgar,” said Johnson. “I’ve faced a lot of Hall of Fame hitters, and . . . Edgar is the best hitter that I ever saw.”

Mariano Rivera also called Edgar the best hitter he ever saw. Edgar slashed .579/.652/.1.053 against him.

Pretty high endorsements.

That's only half his job. The other half is playing in the field. He wasn't a COMPLETE ballplayer. ANY DH should be an exceptional hitter to make up for the fact that that is his ONLY JOB.

I think you can make the argument that Martinez was an exceptional hitter. He's probably a top 50 hitter all time.

All time, hitters with >7500 PAs, EM is:

23rd for wRC+
30th for wOBA
24th in OPS
14th in OBP

On BR's leaderboard (3000 PA min), he's:

42nd in OPS+
77th in WAR

Those are Hall of Fame type rankings. He doesn't have the usually benchmarks (3000 hits, 500 HR) but the dude was pretty clearly an exceptional hitter.

"He's probably a top 50 hitter all time."

Another BL overreach.