Trump: Worst President Ever? Topic

Maybe we ask NK to target DC instead of Guam...
8/29/2017 8:07 PM
Posted by moy23 on 8/29/2017 5:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2017 5:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/29/2017 4:40:00 PM (view original):
Posted by laramiebob on 8/29/2017 4:14:00 PM (view original):
Depends on HOW you define "law and order"....... whose law and what constitutes "order" to you?
What do you mean who's laws?

The laws are the laws. If you don't like the law then change the law, legally. Laws have to be enforced or else why bother even having laws in the first place? The good news for everyone is that those that enforce the laws also have to abide by the law. If you don't like the laws they have to abide by then change them, legally.
Like the law that Arpaio was convicted of breaking?
Yep. I don't agree with the judge but if found guilty then the dude needs to serve his time... That said Trump also has pardoning power and he opted to use it, legally. Lucky for Sheriff Joe.
You realize that by federal law, once he accepts the pardon it is considered an admission of guilt?
8/29/2017 8:49 PM

People always ignore this:

WASHINGTON — For his first annual budget next week, President Obama has banned four accounting gimmicks that President George W. Bush used to make deficit projections look smaller. The price of more honest bookkeeping: A budget that is $2.7 trillion deeper in the red over the next decade than it would otherwise appear, according to administration officials.

The new accounting involves spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Medicare reimbursements to physicians and the cost of disaster responses.

But the biggest adjustment will deal with revenues from the alternative minimum tax, a parallel tax system enacted in 1969 to prevent the wealthy from using tax shelters to avoid paying any income tax.

Even with bigger deficit projections, the Obama administration will put the country on “a sustainable fiscal course” by the end of Mr. Obama’s term, Peter R. Orszag, the director of the Office of Management and Budget, said Thursday in an interview. Mr. Orszag did not provide details of how the administration would reduce a deficit expected to reach at least $1.5 trillion this year.

Fiscal sleight of hand has long been a staple of federal budgets, giving rise to phrases like “rosy scenario” and “magic asterisks.”

The $2.7 trillion in additional deficit spending, Mr. Orszag said, is “a huge amount of money that would just be kind of a magic asterisk in previous budgets.”

“The president prefers to tell the truth,” he said, “rather than make the numbers look better by pretending.”

Recent presidents and Congresses were complicit in the ploy involving the alternative minimum tax. While that tax was intended to hit the wealthiest taxpayers, it was not indexed for inflation. That fact and the tax breaks of the Bush years have meant that it could affect millions of middle-class taxpayers.

If they paid it, the government would get billions of dollars more in tax revenues, which is what past budgets have projected. But it would also probably mean a taxpayer revolt. So each year the White House and Congress agree to “patch” the alternative tax for inflation, and the extra revenues never materialize.

Nearly $70 billion of the just-enacted $787 billion economic recovery plan reflected the bookkeeping cost of adjusting the alternative tax for a year.

The White House budget office calculates that over the next decade, the tax would add $1.2 trillion in revenues. But Mr. Obama is not counting those revenues, and he is adding $218 billion to the 10-year deficit projections to reflect the added interest the government would pay for its extra debt.

As for war costs, Mr. Bush included little or none in his annual military budgets, instead routinely asking Congress for supplemental appropriations during the year. Mr. Obama will include cost projections for every year through the 2019 fiscal year to cover “overseas military contingencies” — nearly $500 billion over 10 years.

For Medicare, Mr. Bush routinely budgeted less than actual costs for payments to physicians, although he and Congress regularly waived a law mandating the lower reimbursements for fear that doctors would quit serving beneficiaries in protest.

Mr. Obama will budget $401 billion over 10 years for higher costs and interest on the debt.

He will also budget $273 billion in that period for natural disasters. Every year the government pays billions for disaster relief, but presidents and lawmakers have long ignored budget reformers’ calls for a contingency account to reflect that certainty.

8/29/2017 9:20 PM
Posted by wylie715 on 8/29/2017 7:37:00 PM (view original):
Posted by cccp1014 on 8/29/2017 7:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by wylie715 on 8/29/2017 6:10:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/29/2017 5:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2017 3:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/29/2017 3:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2017 3:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by wylie715 on 8/29/2017 2:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by cccp1014 on 8/29/2017 10:45:00 AM (view original):
I find it interesting. The country has become visibly divided with the ludicrous progressives on one side and right wing conservatives on the other and they just blast one another with "fake news" facts. Meanwhile moderates just sit there and shake their heads asking both sides to please STFU.

While the Alt-Right is clearly way worse than the Prog. Leftists the Prog. Leftists are still just super annoying, uneducated buffoons for the most part.
you know, comrade, you claim to be a moderate ( and I don't really care what you claim to be or are) but you are always calling the left names like ludicrous, while the right is just right wing conservatives. Seems to me you are a little more right leaning than you say. To me both sides are ludicrous and buffoons.
Yeah, Boris went to the miket school of pretending to be in the middle.
Oh, let's at least be honest. I lean conservative. I just don't give a damn about some of the right wing staples like abortion, legalization of pot, opposition to SSM, etc, etc.

But the left on this board is largely ridiculous. When I ask what Trump's done to ruin the world, I get Paris Accord, a FCC appointee and some rambling about the environment. Which is, quite frankly, nothing. Yet day in, day out, I keep reading that we're in deep **** as long as Trump is in office. As if removing him solves all of America's problems.
Says the guy who argued Obama was the worst president in history.
Good dude, terrible President. Everything he did is being undone. Or they're working on undoing it.
doesn't mean what he did was terrible, just means that the opposition party does not like what he did.
Subjective. Wylie, are you are registered Dem?
Yes, I am a registered Democrat. What does that have to do with anything? I'm not saying Obama was a great president, just that because when the opposition gets in power they try to undo everything he did that doesn't make him terrible. To some he was terrible, to some he was great. Like you said, its all subjective. What is not subjective is that the Red Sox suck.
I was just asking don't be so defensive
8/29/2017 9:27 PM
who is being defensive? I just didn't see what the question had to do with anything.
Red Sox still suck.
8/29/2017 9:46 PM
Posted by cccp1014 on 8/29/2017 7:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2017 7:21:00 PM (view original):
Also, the debt went up because we were in a ******* demand driven recession the day he took office. It wasn't a policy issue, it was a recession issue. There was no way to shrink the debt without putting the economy further into a downward spiral.
Yes but it increased notably under him. He needed to raise the debt ceiling, right? January 09 the national debt was at a bit less than $11Trl. we are now at nearly $20trn and look at it as a % of GDP. Not good. Some of it was due to the deficit his inherited but he didn't do anything to reduce it. It is not 100% his fault a lot of is on Bush but again under him we did nothing to help ourselves with better trade deals, fewer corporate inversions, a more favorable tax code for corporations, etc.

You should know this. When lack of demand is driving a recession, cutting federal spending is a HORRIBLE idea.

8/29/2017 9:55 PM
A lot like the Rose Garden photo celebrating repealing the ACA:


Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said Tuesday night that the Pentagon's current policy on transgender troops "will remain in place" while President Trump's directive banning transgender people from joining the military undergoes an expert study.

The move by Mattis allows transgender people to continue serving openly in the military while the Pentagon considers whether to discharge them in light of Trump's order.

In a statement, Mattis said that Trump's directive would be reviewed by a panel of experts from the Departments of Defense and Homeland Security.

"Once the panel reports its recommendations and following my consultation with the secretary of Homeland Security, I will provide my advice to the president concerning implementation of his policy direction," Mattis said.

Trump formally directed the Pentagon to implement the ban on transgender individuals joining the military last week, which he first announced in a July 26 tweet. Trump also gave the Pentagon the authority to decide the future of openly transgender people already serving.

"The implementation plan will address accessions of transgender individuals and transgender individuals currently serving in the United States military," Mattis said. "Our focus must always be on what is best for the military's combat effectiveness leading to victory on the battlefield."

Transgender people have been able to serve openly in the military since last year, when then-Secretary of Defense Ash Carter lifted a prior ban during the Obama administration.

8/29/2017 10:06 PM
I can't get my head around that there are dozens of genders. Perhaps I am in a parallel dimension...
8/29/2017 10:14 PM

WASHINGTON — A key Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee said the panel needs to seek testimony from Felix Sater, a business associate of President Trump, and may ultimately have to call the president himself in light of newly disclosed emails about a prospective Trump Tower project in Moscow that was being pursued during the early stages of last year’s presidential campaign.

“This is a bright light in an ever growing constellation of contacts between Donald Trump and Russia,” Rep. Eric Swalwell, D-Calif., told Yahoo News on Tuesday. In a hearing with then-FBI Director James Comey last March, Swalwell first raised questions about Sater’s role.

Swalwell told Yahoo News that Sater, a Russian-born convicted felon turned FBI informant, is a “relevant witness” who may have been a “pivotal player” in the relationship between Trump and the Russian government. But the committee will likely need to go further to resolve all the questions swirling about the issue, including seeking testimony directly from Trump. “We don’t want to be reckless,” said Swalwell. “But that should be on the table. My belief is we have to hear from all relevant witnesses, and it does look like he [Trump] is likely relevant.”

It would be extremely rare, but not unprecedented, for a president to testify before a congressional committee. The last known instance was in 1974 when then-President Gerald Ford testified before a House Judiciary Subcommittee about his pardon of his predecessor, Richard Nixon. (Before that, it hadn’t happened since Woodrow Wilson testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee about the League of Nations.) But the mere fact that a leading Democratic investigator is raising the issue illustrates the mounting stakes for the White House from the inquiries, both by Congress and special counsel Robert Mueller, into contacts he and his campaign had with Russian officials. Special White House counsel Ty Cobb said Tuesday night: “We will continue to cooperate with the committee’s investigation to the extent that it is appropriate.”

The potential new interest in Trump’s testimony was triggered by emails turned over to the House Intelligence Committee this week showing that even while he was running for president, Trump was pursuing a deal to build a giant Trump Tower in Moscow — an ambitious project, envisioned as the world’s tallest building and costing well over $100 million, that was conceived and pitched to the Trump Organization by Sater. The onetime Trump real estate adviser envisioned the project as a way to help Trump win the presidential election, the emails suggest. “Our boy can become president of the USA and we can engineer it,” Sater wrote in one email to Michael Cohen, then Trump’s lawyer and an executive vice president at the Trump Organization. “I will get all of Putins team to buy in on this, I will manage this process.”

Cohen, who even emailed Dmitri Peskov, the chief press spokesman for Putin, in January of last year to seek approval for the project, said this week that he pulled the plug on the project late that month because he “lost confidence” it would get the necessary approvals in Moscow. (Cohen is slated to testify before the House Intelligence Committee next Tuesday.) A White House official told Yahoo News that Trump himself had forgotten about the project and, while furious when recently shown the Sater-Cohen emails, insisted it proved his contention that he never colluded with Putin’s government because the Trump Tower Moscow deal never came to fruition.

But the newly discovered emails raise multiple questions about the accounts Trump and his aides have given about their dealings with Sater — a controversial figure who was twice convicted on felony charges, once for slashing another man’s face with a broken cocktail glass and a second time in a “pump and dump” Wall Street stock fraud involving the Genovese and Bonanno crime families. (Sater avoided prison in the later case by becoming an FBI informant on Russian organized crime and other matters.)

Sater later emerged as an adviser to the Trump Organization on real estate deals, both in New York and around the world, complete with an office in Trump Tower and a business card listing him as a “senior advisor to Donald Trump.” But when Trump was grilled under oath in a lawsuit about his relationship with Sater, he insisted he barely knew the Russian émigré.

“If he were sitting in the room right now, I really wouldn’t know what he looked like,” Trump testified in a video deposition for a 2013 civil lawsuit.

When Sater’s role arose last year as a potential campaign issue, Alan Garten, chief counsel for the Trump Organization, told reporters that Sater had been given the business card to pitch deals in 2010 but that he was never an employee and that the arrangement only lasted six months.

But those accounts are now being questioned in light of the new emails showing that Sater was still playing a role with the Trump Organization in pursuing the Moscow project in late 2015 and early 2016 — well after Trump had declared his candidacy for president.

“This is evidence that Sater never really stopped working for Trump,” said Frederick Oberlander, a lawyer who has sued Sater and the Trump Organization. “As a political matter it shows Trump’s willingness to engage ‘forever’ with a serially convicted felon with a background in massive financial fraud.”

Sater has consistently denied allegations that he defrauded anybody in Trump Organization projects. In a statement provided to Yahoo News by his lawyer, Sater said he was “not working” for the Trump Organization when he pitched the project to Cohen and “had the project been successful, I would not have been compensated” by the company. Sater did not address why he pursued a project for which he would not have been paid. But he indicated in his statement he had not discussed it with Trump.

“Michael Cohen was the only member of the Trump Organization who I communicated with on this project,” he said. “During the course of our communications over several months, I routinely expressed my enthusiasm regarding what a tremendous opportunity this was for the Trump Organization. Ultimately, in January 2016 Michael informed me that the Trump Organization decided not to move forward with the project.”

The questions about the Trump Tower Moscow project are among many the House Intelligence Committee and its Senate counterpart are now pursuing in what many see as an agonizingly slow pace. Nearly nine months into the inquiries, neither panel has yet to hold public hearings with any of the key players in the investigations, such as former national security adviser Michael Flynn, former campaign manager Paul Manafort, and Donald Trump Jr. Nor is it clear at this point that will ever happen given special counsel Mueller’s parallel criminal investigation, in which those players and many others are potential targets. Swalwell said the House committee has made “tremendous progress in the last eight weeks,” and he expects that in September it will be operating at a “pretty dizzying pace.” But asked when he expected the panel will be able to wrap up its probe and reach a finding, he said, “ideally before voters next go to the polls.” That would mean the investigation would likely continue well into next year and wouldn’t wrap up before November 2018 when voters will determine whether the House stays in Republican hands or will be taken over by Democrats inclined, like Swalwell, to cut Trump no slack at all.

8/29/2017 11:16 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2017 7:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by cccp1014 on 8/29/2017 7:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2017 7:26:00 PM (view original):
Jesus christ. None of that says anything about people going out of business.

Go back to Russia, tell them that they did a good job getting Trump elected and the US is now ******.
Dumbass - LOL

oooohh the Xenophobic response, I am an American, my parents were LEGAL Immigrants and now American Citizens. What's next B_L are you going to insult me for being Jewish too?

Obamacare has cost roughly 300,000 small business jobs due to higher health care costs, according to a new report.

The American Action Forum, a center-right policy institute, released findings Wednesday that rising premiums and regulations under the Affordable Care Act have had "dire" consequences for the labor market.

The report found the law has cost $19 billion in lost wages per year and forced 10,000 small businesses establishments to close their doors. The study covered employers with 20 to 99 employees.

So a right wing think tank came out with an estimate that the ACA is responsible for 10,000 businesses going under?

Riiiiiiight. Calling bullshit on that nonsense.

The Russian part explains why you're so interested in sucking off trump.
IF YOU LIKE YOUR DOCTOR YOU CAN KEEP YOUR DOCTOR!
ACA WILL SAVE FAMILIES $2500 A YEAR!


You can argue til your face is blue that the ACA woulda coulda shoulda been an improvement over prior healthcare but you can't argue against the FACT that IT FELL WELL SHORT OF OBAMA'S CLAIMS!!!

WORST PRESIDENT EVER... and Oblundercare is his only remaining legacy!
8/29/2017 11:29 PM
Wait did moy just say something?
8/29/2017 11:37 PM
Posted by moy23 on 8/29/2017 11:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2017 7:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by cccp1014 on 8/29/2017 7:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2017 7:26:00 PM (view original):
Jesus christ. None of that says anything about people going out of business.

Go back to Russia, tell them that they did a good job getting Trump elected and the US is now ******.
Dumbass - LOL

oooohh the Xenophobic response, I am an American, my parents were LEGAL Immigrants and now American Citizens. What's next B_L are you going to insult me for being Jewish too?

Obamacare has cost roughly 300,000 small business jobs due to higher health care costs, according to a new report.

The American Action Forum, a center-right policy institute, released findings Wednesday that rising premiums and regulations under the Affordable Care Act have had "dire" consequences for the labor market.

The report found the law has cost $19 billion in lost wages per year and forced 10,000 small businesses establishments to close their doors. The study covered employers with 20 to 99 employees.

So a right wing think tank came out with an estimate that the ACA is responsible for 10,000 businesses going under?

Riiiiiiight. Calling bullshit on that nonsense.

The Russian part explains why you're so interested in sucking off trump.
IF YOU LIKE YOUR DOCTOR YOU CAN KEEP YOUR DOCTOR!
ACA WILL SAVE FAMILIES $2500 A YEAR!


You can argue til your face is blue that the ACA woulda coulda shoulda been an improvement over prior healthcare but you can't argue against the FACT that IT FELL WELL SHORT OF OBAMA'S CLAIMS!!!

WORST PRESIDENT EVER... and Oblundercare is his only remaining legacy!
Counterpoint: Obama and Obamacare are popular and the law helped people.

Good president.
8/30/2017 12:05 AM

Trump Praises Crowd Size, Fails to Acknowledge Harvey Victims in Texas Visit


Whoops-a-daisy
8/30/2017 6:27 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 8/30/2017 12:05:00 AM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/29/2017 11:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2017 7:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by cccp1014 on 8/29/2017 7:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2017 7:26:00 PM (view original):
Jesus christ. None of that says anything about people going out of business.

Go back to Russia, tell them that they did a good job getting Trump elected and the US is now ******.
Dumbass - LOL

oooohh the Xenophobic response, I am an American, my parents were LEGAL Immigrants and now American Citizens. What's next B_L are you going to insult me for being Jewish too?

Obamacare has cost roughly 300,000 small business jobs due to higher health care costs, according to a new report.

The American Action Forum, a center-right policy institute, released findings Wednesday that rising premiums and regulations under the Affordable Care Act have had "dire" consequences for the labor market.

The report found the law has cost $19 billion in lost wages per year and forced 10,000 small businesses establishments to close their doors. The study covered employers with 20 to 99 employees.

So a right wing think tank came out with an estimate that the ACA is responsible for 10,000 businesses going under?

Riiiiiiight. Calling bullshit on that nonsense.

The Russian part explains why you're so interested in sucking off trump.
IF YOU LIKE YOUR DOCTOR YOU CAN KEEP YOUR DOCTOR!
ACA WILL SAVE FAMILIES $2500 A YEAR!


You can argue til your face is blue that the ACA woulda coulda shoulda been an improvement over prior healthcare but you can't argue against the FACT that IT FELL WELL SHORT OF OBAMA'S CLAIMS!!!

WORST PRESIDENT EVER... and Oblundercare is his only remaining legacy!
Counterpoint: Obama and Obamacare are popular and the law helped people.

Good president.
Is Obamacare "popular"? And did it hurt people as well?
8/30/2017 6:30 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/30/2017 6:30:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/30/2017 12:05:00 AM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/29/2017 11:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2017 7:42:00 PM (view original):
Posted by cccp1014 on 8/29/2017 7:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/29/2017 7:26:00 PM (view original):
Jesus christ. None of that says anything about people going out of business.

Go back to Russia, tell them that they did a good job getting Trump elected and the US is now ******.
Dumbass - LOL

oooohh the Xenophobic response, I am an American, my parents were LEGAL Immigrants and now American Citizens. What's next B_L are you going to insult me for being Jewish too?

Obamacare has cost roughly 300,000 small business jobs due to higher health care costs, according to a new report.

The American Action Forum, a center-right policy institute, released findings Wednesday that rising premiums and regulations under the Affordable Care Act have had "dire" consequences for the labor market.

The report found the law has cost $19 billion in lost wages per year and forced 10,000 small businesses establishments to close their doors. The study covered employers with 20 to 99 employees.

So a right wing think tank came out with an estimate that the ACA is responsible for 10,000 businesses going under?

Riiiiiiight. Calling bullshit on that nonsense.

The Russian part explains why you're so interested in sucking off trump.
IF YOU LIKE YOUR DOCTOR YOU CAN KEEP YOUR DOCTOR!
ACA WILL SAVE FAMILIES $2500 A YEAR!


You can argue til your face is blue that the ACA woulda coulda shoulda been an improvement over prior healthcare but you can't argue against the FACT that IT FELL WELL SHORT OF OBAMA'S CLAIMS!!!

WORST PRESIDENT EVER... and Oblundercare is his only remaining legacy!
Counterpoint: Obama and Obamacare are popular and the law helped people.

Good president.
Is Obamacare "popular"? And did it hurt people as well?
From RCP

Obamacare Historical Public Approval

For/Favor Against/Oppose Spread For/Favor Against/Oppose Spread
2009 - - - 2013 40.4 50.6 -10.2
2010 39.9 51.4 -11.5 2014 39.4 52.6 -13.2
2011 39.1 50.8 -11.7 2015 41.4 50.3 -8.9
2012 40.2 48.8 -8.6 2016 40.4 49.4 -9.0
8/30/2017 6:38 AM
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Trump: Worst President Ever? Topic

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