Posted by tecwrg on 8/28/2017 12:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/28/2017 11:44:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 8/27/2017 9:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/27/2017 6:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 8/27/2017 8:07:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/26/2017 10:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 8/26/2017 10:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/26/2017 10:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 8/26/2017 10:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/26/2017 9:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 8/26/2017 9:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/26/2017 8:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 8/26/2017 8:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/26/2017 7:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 8/26/2017 7:33:00 PM (view original):
So what are you disputing about "we absolutely pay for everything in the end"?

So anytime an insurance company pays a claim, you consider it a payment from the public?

Just pointing out that the money comes from somewhere. And that somewhere ultimately is your own wallet.

The problem with Obamacare is that it did nothing to lower the cost of healthcare. My premiums have been rising at the same rate, if not more, post-ACA as they did before.

And I'm just pointing out that "we" aren't paying for it when someone has a claim paid by the insurance company.

The insurance company is.

Yeah. With the money "we" gave them.

Stop being such a dumbass.

If the burger joint up the road spends profits to buy a new cash register, did "we" pay for the cash register?

Of course not.

The burger place did.

Do you understand how insurance works?

Yes, but I'm a little mystified by your argument that insurance companies are an unnecessary middleman between the public and health care providers.

Who's making that argument? Because I'm not.

You're saying that when insurance companies pay claims, it ultimately comes out of the pockets of the public.

If that's the case, why have insurance companies at all? Why not just run it through the government?

You're apparently disputing the idea that when an insurance company pays a claim, that ultimately the money they are paying did not come from their customers.

I'm just trying to understand where you think the money to pay the claim came from. Did it just magically appear? Was it delivered by unicorns jumping over rainbows? Please enlighten the group here with how this all works.

I'm disputing the idea that we are the ones who ultimately pay for gender reassignment surgeries. We aren't. The insurance companies are who pay for it.

We pay premiums for our own coverage.

If you're arguing that insurance companies use premium revenue to pay claims, well, yeah, that's what happens. But when claims & UW expenses exceed premium volume, it's the insurance companies' problem, not ours.

So premiums wouldn't rise?

Why have my healthcare premiums been rising every year?

Oh, you're one of those people that blame high ticket prices on high player salaries.

Premiums go up because health insurance companies think that people will pay the higher premiums. We know premium increases aren't tied directly to cost increases because companies don't cut premiums after they have years with good underwriting results. The five biggest health insurance companies are going to make billions in profit in 2017 and will raise rates 4 to 5 percent in 2018.

The fact that someone else's gender reassignment surgery might be covered by insurance will not cost you a dime. The fact that the people running health insurance companies have a fiduciary responsibility to make as much money as they can for their shareholders will cost you a dime. Lots and lots of dimes.

Were you wearing your tinfoil hat when you posted this?

Insurance companies aren't going to change their premiums due to a specific year's "underwriting" results. Some years have favorable results compared to actuarial projections, and they make more profit. Some years have unfavorable results compared to actuarial projections, and they take a loss. Premiums for the next year will change based on projected claim payouts based on actuarial forecasts. The factor that changes from year to year is the ever rising cost of healthcare.

Maybe you should limit yourself to only looking like an idiot in baseball discussions, rather than also looking like an idiot when talking about insurance.

Raise your hand if you have an insurance license.

Still waiting. Please find one post where I was wrong....back up your claim.

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/28/2017 12:27:00 PM (view original):
I know EXACTLY how they work. In fact one of my good friends is the lead actuary for SBLI. It is done the way I described it. You may choose to believe what you like.

like you have friends!

Posted by wylie715 on 8/28/2017 12:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/28/2017 12:27:00 PM (view original):
I know EXACTLY how they work. In fact one of my good friends is the lead actuary for SBLI. It is done the way I described it. You may choose to believe what you like.

like you have friends!

You're hurting my feelings. LOL

"...surmise that more expensive procedures are likely to occur..."

Are you concluding that more humans are going to decide "Hey, I wanna (lose my) dick.......... I'm gonna go get a big traumatic surgery and begin to be a member of the "other" sex for awhile....... and that the Insurance corps. know this and therefore the minute an insurer gets a reassignment surgery paid for (less his/her deductible) the flood gates will open and EVERYBODY'S insurance rates will rise to cover all those surgeries???

Is THAT how it works, Boris?

Do you think there are more or less gender reassignment surgeries now than in the past?

Posted by laramiebob on 8/28/2017 12:59:00 PM (view original):
"...surmise that more expensive procedures are likely to occur..."

Are you concluding that more humans are going to decide "Hey, I wanna (lose my) dick.......... I'm gonna go get a big traumatic surgery and begin to be a member of the "other" sex for awhile....... and that the Insurance corps. know this and therefore the minute an insurer gets a reassignment surgery paid for (less his/her deductible) the flood gates will open and EVERYBODY'S insurance rates will rise to cover all those surgeries???

Is THAT how it works, Boris?

Bob, I never specifically mentioned any surgeries I only explained from a big picture point of view how insurance companies work. Please find where I ever referenced any specific surgeries or such. I do not have the required data to intelligently opine on specific surgeries and the forecasts going forward. I only opined that B_L stated that insurance companies cover expensive procedures and not people and while technically that is the case in the end our premiums go up if the payouts exceed the company's forecasts. Hence WE do pay for them. Indirectly.

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/28/2017 1:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 8/28/2017 12:59:00 PM (view original):
"...surmise that more expensive procedures are likely to occur..."

Are you concluding that more humans are going to decide "Hey, I wanna (lose my) dick.......... I'm gonna go get a big traumatic surgery and begin to be a member of the "other" sex for awhile....... and that the Insurance corps. know this and therefore the minute an insurer gets a reassignment surgery paid for (less his/her deductible) the flood gates will open and EVERYBODY'S insurance rates will rise to cover all those surgeries???

Is THAT how it works, Boris?

Bob, I never specifically mentioned any surgeries I only explained from a big picture point of view how insurance companies work. Please find where I ever referenced any specific surgeries or such. I do not have the required data to intelligently opine on specific surgeries and the forecasts going forward. I only opined that B_L stated that insurance companies cover expensive procedures and not people and while technically that is the case in the end our premiums go up if the payouts exceed the company's forecasts. Hence WE do pay for them. Indirectly.

Premiums can go up if losses exceed projections. But, counter intuitively, they also can go down. Insurance companies aren't a monolith. Policy holders aren't a monolith. Each company has its own products, projections, rates, and mandates. Company A, operating in a given state, may take losses and still cut rates to maintain market share. Company B might decide that their profits were too low at the rates they had been charging and decide to increase rates despite good results. Company C might see B's rate increase and move into the market with a similar product at a lower price to try to undercut B and generate cash flow.

Saying costs = increases is stupid.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/28/2017 1:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/28/2017 1:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by laramiebob on 8/28/2017 12:59:00 PM (view original):
"...surmise that more expensive procedures are likely to occur..."

Are you concluding that more humans are going to decide "Hey, I wanna (lose my) dick.......... I'm gonna go get a big traumatic surgery and begin to be a member of the "other" sex for awhile....... and that the Insurance corps. know this and therefore the minute an insurer gets a reassignment surgery paid for (less his/her deductible) the flood gates will open and EVERYBODY'S insurance rates will rise to cover all those surgeries???

Is THAT how it works, Boris?

Bob, I never specifically mentioned any surgeries I only explained from a big picture point of view how insurance companies work. Please find where I ever referenced any specific surgeries or such. I do not have the required data to intelligently opine on specific surgeries and the forecasts going forward. I only opined that B_L stated that insurance companies cover expensive procedures and not people and while technically that is the case in the end our premiums go up if the payouts exceed the company's forecasts. Hence WE do pay for them. Indirectly.

Premiums can go up if losses exceed projections. But, counter intuitively, they also can go down. Insurance companies aren't a monolith. Policy holders aren't a monolith. Each company has its own products, projections, rates, and mandates. Company A, operating in a given state, may take losses and still cut rates to maintain market share. Company B might decide that their profits were too low at the rates they had been charging and decide to increase rates despite good results. Company C might see B's rate increase and move into the market with a similar product at a lower price to try to undercut B and generate cash flow.

Saying costs = increases is stupid.

That was so convoluted I could barely follow it. Costs can go down of course but that is unlikely because the population is aging in the U.S. Insurance firms will rarely raise rates if they forecast they can still hit their EPS because doing so could lose them clients to their competitors and negatively impact EPS. Hence they play a fine line with cost increases and member attrition. But they are a business and if costs do go up, WE will pay for them as a whole. So costs do likely equal increases. That is not stupid that is capitalism.

Again, you're acting like individual companies do not respond to competition or a shifting customer base or cash flow needs or anything at all other than claim costs. And that just isn't the case.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/28/2017 2:08:00 PM (view original):
Again, you're acting like individual companies do not respond to competition or a shifting customer base or cash flow needs or anything at all other than claim costs. And that just isn't the case.

They do but most get their insurance via their employer so they are locked in. This is not as a dynamic a marketplace as auto insurance for instance. Actually Trump is trying to do that by his getting rid of the lines campaign. So if I am with ABC Insurance and my rates increase by 2% next yr I cannot tell my employer to switch insurance companies that is 100% their call.

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/28/2017 2:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/28/2017 2:08:00 PM (view original):
Again, you're acting like individual companies do not respond to competition or a shifting customer base or cash flow needs or anything at all other than claim costs. And that just isn't the case.

They do but most get their insurance via their employer so they are locked in. This is not as a dynamic a marketplace as auto insurance for instance. Actually Trump is trying to do that by his getting rid of the lines campaign. So if I am with ABC Insurance and my rates increase by 2% next yr I cannot tell my employer to switch insurance companies that is 100% their call.

Employers switch health insurance companies all the time. The broker brings in plans from the competition every single year.

Posted by bad_luck on 8/28/2017 2:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/28/2017 2:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/28/2017 2:08:00 PM (view original):
Again, you're acting like individual companies do not respond to competition or a shifting customer base or cash flow needs or anything at all other than claim costs. And that just isn't the case.

They do but most get their insurance via their employer so they are locked in. This is not as a dynamic a marketplace as auto insurance for instance. Actually Trump is trying to do that by his getting rid of the lines campaign. So if I am with ABC Insurance and my rates increase by 2% next yr I cannot tell my employer to switch insurance companies that is 100% their call.

Employers switch health insurance companies all the time. The broker brings in plans from the competition every single year.

Define all the time? Mine has not switched theirs in over 15 yrs. You mean sometimes and when they do rarely if EVER do the individual employees pay less than they did before. I love you deal in absolutely. You really do live in a fantasy world. Please garner an education.

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/28/2017 2:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/28/2017 2:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cccp1014 on 8/28/2017 2:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/28/2017 2:08:00 PM (view original):
Again, you're acting like individual companies do not respond to competition or a shifting customer base or cash flow needs or anything at all other than claim costs. And that just isn't the case.

They do but most get their insurance via their employer so they are locked in. This is not as a dynamic a marketplace as auto insurance for instance. Actually Trump is trying to do that by his getting rid of the lines campaign. So if I am with ABC Insurance and my rates increase by 2% next yr I cannot tell my employer to switch insurance companies that is 100% their call.

Employers switch health insurance companies all the time. The broker brings in plans from the competition every single year.

Define all the time? Mine has not switched theirs in over 15 yrs. You mean sometimes and when they do rarely if EVER do the individual employees pay less than they did before. I love you deal in absolutely. You really do live in a fantasy world. Please garner an education.

Well, let's see, I work for a fairly large (400 employees) regional insurance brokerage. Our company changed plans last year. Many of our clients did too. Others are changing this year. I'm not sure what state you're in, but unless your broker is a complete clown, your company has options every year.

And, we're waaaaay off topic, but it's worth noting that health insurance companies don't have to cover gender reassignment surgery. Some do, in some cases.