I don't know, I don't see how to approximate the movement of free agents in anything like a realistic ways given that the "players" don't have free will. I think experimenting with a cap of, say, $52 mil could be a helpful step. That's not going to change the distribution of the prime Durants, Kidds, etc., but it might result in more equitable distribution of second- and third- tier talent, thereby reducing the number of 70-win dynamo seasons.

Good discussion. Keep it up.

We've experimented with capped progs, but they didn't run very long. Probably because we ran an all-time prog, so the draft classes weren't super exciting (they were literally just for undrafted players/cut players/rl nba rookies).

I like the idea of a $52m cap... or even lower. A $47m cap would be a challenge to every team every season, but it might more than most people want to manage. I don't know. As I said, good discussion!

And yeah, the lack of free agency has a big impact. A decent playoff team can become a monster because of free agency (see: Miami pre-big3 era).

52 mil cap is way too high. My Celtics team that won 75+ games 5 seasons in a row only exceeded that once (and just barely. I could have cut a player that never even played and got under the cap). If you're going to do a cap league, there's really no point in having it over 48 mil or at the very highest 50.

One really goid thing that would come of this: no one would have too many excess minutes so there would be a very small need for scrubs!

Posted by benhoidal on 6/5/2017 6:05:00 PM (view original):
52 mil cap is way too high. My Celtics team that won 75+ games 5 seasons in a row only exceeded that once (and just barely. I could have cut a player that never even played and got under the cap). If you're going to do a cap league, there's really no point in having it over 48 mil or at the very highest 50.

One really goid thing that would come of this: no one would have too many excess minutes so there would be a very small need for scrubs!

It'd also depend on type. That was a single-season progressive. A double year or double era would see more teams break through that, but yeah, that's a good point for sure.

And yeah, the minute distribution would be much better.

Posted by ncmusician_7 on 6/5/2017 11:04:00 AM (view original):
I wonder if having a keeper limit, or a seasons limit of having a player would help (to approximate free agency).

Our group has a combination of both in the RL sports fantasy leagues we do and we love it. Sure it's tough to lose a guy like a Mike Trout or Damian Lillard for nothing, but what did you really do to "earn" them in the 1st place? Too jaded from past experience to even think about trying to bring the concept to WIS. The Random Leagues are pretty cool - almost never any intentional tanking there.

One other big difference between the "real" drafts and WIS drafts (aside from the previously mentioned "take a late flyer") is that in WIS Drafts everybody knows exactly what production they're getting and for how long while real teams have zero idea. If people think RL tanking is getting bad now, imagine how bad it would be if all players production and longevity were already known. It would make WIS progressive's "chaos" look tame.

In the triple era progressive, every current division leader has a roster that is higher than $52M.

Posted by benhoidal on 6/5/2017 6:05:00 PM (view original):
52 mil cap is way too high. My Celtics team that won 75+ games 5 seasons in a row only exceeded that once (and just barely. I could have cut a player that never even played and got under the cap). If you're going to do a cap league, there's really no point in having it over 48 mil or at the very highest 50.

One really goid thing that would come of this: no one would have too many excess minutes so there would be a very small need for scrubs!

If a prog team wins 75+ 5 seasons in a row, I'd suspect shenanigans. Ur Milwaukee Bucks team that has 87-88 Malone, Stockton, Rodman, etc, did you tank 3 seasons in a row to get those players?

Posted by ncmusician_7 on 6/5/2017 7:57:00 PM (view original):
In the triple era progressive, every current division leader has a roster that is higher than $52M.

For sure. Single year progs would need a much lower cap, whereas multi-year/era progs would need higher.

Posted by ashamael on 6/5/2017 8:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ncmusician_7 on 6/5/2017 7:57:00 PM (view original):
In the triple era progressive, every current division leader has a roster that is higher than $52M.

For sure. Single year progs would need a much lower cap, whereas multi-year/era progs would need higher.

I agree, although I doubt I'd play a single season prog. If you took over a team with no good players at the wrong time, even high draft picks might not help you much, For example, the 1984 draft has 4 HOF while the 1988-1991 drafts have 3 combined HOF that played in the NBA. I know that real life and the sim don't always correlate, but I think you get my point.

The minute struggle is real in single-year progs, especially prior to the expansions in the late 80s. My biggest problem with my current ZPL team is that I always have to have a scrub or two to play valuable minutes... and they are killers of efficiency.

My problem with scrubs is they are killers of any shred of realism.

Posted by ashamael on 6/5/2017 6:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by benhoidal on 6/5/2017 6:05:00 PM (view original):
52 mil cap is way too high. My Celtics team that won 75+ games 5 seasons in a row only exceeded that once (and just barely. I could have cut a player that never even played and got under the cap). If you're going to do a cap league, there's really no point in having it over 48 mil or at the very highest 50.

One really goid thing that would come of this: no one would have too many excess minutes so there would be a very small need for scrubs!

It'd also depend on type. That was a single-season progressive. A double year or double era would see more teams break through that, but yeah, that's a good point for sure.

And yeah, the minute distribution would be much better.

Agreed if you had a minutes cap, that would help. Maybe 21000 minutes.. So the discarded players can go into a "free agent" pool and there's a redraft starting from the worse team no lottery.

So they can potentially pick up players not scrubs and they can be a better team for it

I like that idea, leibo!

a minutes cap could lead to very creative trading scenarios

I would allow trading up to two seasons ahead, if that was in play

also, players on IR or with partial season become much more interesting in such a league