Posted by MikeT23 on 4/21/2017 2:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/21/2017 2:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/21/2017 2:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/21/2017 2:11:00 PM (view original):
I should state that I wouldn't get the near the hairy skinheads or grubby rednecks that BL posted if I saw them in Wal-Mart. They're young with guns. Probably a bad idea to interact with them. Almost positive the dude with Oreos is stoned. No thanks.

But would you shoot them?

Could you quote the post where I said I shot young, black males during the STL riots?

You didn't.

So why would you ask your dumbass question?

You seemed to imply earlier that it was perfectly rational for the cops to shoot Crawford for simply holding a BB gun.

When did I become a cop?

It seems reasonable to me that if an untrained, old, South Carolina redneck who is already wary of young folk wouldn't shoot someone simply holding a gun in Walmart, that maybe the cops shouldn't shoot a guy simply holding a gun in Walmart.

Posted by tecwrg on 4/21/2017 2:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 4/21/2017 2:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 4/21/2017 2:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 4/21/2017 2:01:00 PM (view original):
A friend of mine (actually, a good friend of my wife) went off the deep end with BLM last summer. I had respected her as an intelligent, highly educated woman up until then, But it became kind of difficult to maintain that level of respect afterwards.

She was posting all sorts of **** daily on Facebook about BLM, and how the "All Lives Matter" response was a blatant attempt to trivialize BLM, blah, blah, blah. I made the mistake of responding about how "All Lives Matter" was not, in fact, racist, but that it was an all-inclusive view.

My comments were IMMEDIATELY dismissed by her because I couldn't possibly have an appropriate perspective on the subject "as an upper middle class white American male" (her exact words). The ironic part was that she apparently felt that she had the absolutely perfect perspective on all matters involving race as an upper middle class white American female. Such hypocrisy.

Then, the next day, she posted something from Huffington Post, an editorial or some such crap, about how ALL white people are inherently racist because they are white and privileged and "don't know what it's like" to be black.

And all I could think of was how MLK Jr.'s message of "I have a dream that one day my children will be judged, not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character" in 1963 somehow turned into "all white people are racist because they're white" in 2016 by the BLM folk.

I'm pretty sure that she and BL would get along just fine.

You're friend is probably dumb, but you know why "all lives matter" is a ****** response to "black lives matter," right?

I'm aware of the bullshit rationalization's about ALM vs BLM. They're bullshit.

If you're saying "black lives matter," you aren't saying "only black lives matter" or "black lives matter more." You're saying "all lives matter but our society doesn't act like black lives matter."

What's bullshit about that?

I'm talking about the bullshit rationalization of how "All Lives Matter" is racist, and can't possibly be anything but racist.

I didn't say it's racist. I said it's a ****** response.

Obviously all lives matter. It's black lives that have a problem.

"All Lives Matter" is far from a ****** response. It's the goal, one which removes color/race from the equation. If you think that's ******, what does that say about you?

And yes, ALM has been characterized by many on the left as racist because it doesn't fit the BLM agenda.

But the goal is to draw attention to the fact that our society doesn't treat all races the same.

If someone says, "black lives matter," and your response is "all lives matter," you're saying that blacks and whites are already treated the same by society.

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/21/2017 2:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/21/2017 2:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/21/2017 2:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:26:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/21/2017 2:11:00 PM (view original):
I should state that I wouldn't get the near the hairy skinheads or grubby rednecks that BL posted if I saw them in Wal-Mart. They're young with guns. Probably a bad idea to interact with them. Almost positive the dude with Oreos is stoned. No thanks.

But would you shoot them?

Could you quote the post where I said I shot young, black males during the STL riots?

You didn't.

So why would you ask your dumbass question?

You seemed to imply earlier that it was perfectly rational for the cops to shoot Crawford for simply holding a BB gun.

When did I become a cop?

It seems reasonable to me that if a untrained, old, South Carolina redneck who is already wary of young folk wouldn't shoot someone simply holding a gun in Walmart, that maybe the cops shouldn't shoot a guy simply holding a gun in Walmart.

I don't have the authority to shoot people. But, if granted that right for one day, I'd probably shoot someone casually having a phone conversation holding a gun over a stoner toting a box of Oreos with his gun slung over his back. Phone guy is an immediate threat, the other guy has to drop his precious Oreos before he can even think about using his gun.

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 4/21/2017 2:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 4/21/2017 2:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 4/21/2017 2:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 4/21/2017 2:01:00 PM (view original):
A friend of mine (actually, a good friend of my wife) went off the deep end with BLM last summer. I had respected her as an intelligent, highly educated woman up until then, But it became kind of difficult to maintain that level of respect afterwards.

She was posting all sorts of **** daily on Facebook about BLM, and how the "All Lives Matter" response was a blatant attempt to trivialize BLM, blah, blah, blah. I made the mistake of responding about how "All Lives Matter" was not, in fact, racist, but that it was an all-inclusive view.

My comments were IMMEDIATELY dismissed by her because I couldn't possibly have an appropriate perspective on the subject "as an upper middle class white American male" (her exact words). The ironic part was that she apparently felt that she had the absolutely perfect perspective on all matters involving race as an upper middle class white American female. Such hypocrisy.

Then, the next day, she posted something from Huffington Post, an editorial or some such crap, about how ALL white people are inherently racist because they are white and privileged and "don't know what it's like" to be black.

And all I could think of was how MLK Jr.'s message of "I have a dream that one day my children will be judged, not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character" in 1963 somehow turned into "all white people are racist because they're white" in 2016 by the BLM folk.

I'm pretty sure that she and BL would get along just fine.

You're friend is probably dumb, but you know why "all lives matter" is a ****** response to "black lives matter," right?

I'm aware of the bullshit rationalization's about ALM vs BLM. They're bullshit.

If you're saying "black lives matter," you aren't saying "only black lives matter" or "black lives matter more." You're saying "all lives matter but our society doesn't act like black lives matter."

What's bullshit about that?

I'm talking about the bullshit rationalization of how "All Lives Matter" is racist, and can't possibly be anything but racist.

I didn't say it's racist. I said it's a ****** response.

Obviously all lives matter. It's black lives that have a problem.

"All Lives Matter" is far from a ****** response. It's the goal, one which removes color/race from the equation. If you think that's ******, what does that say about you?

And yes, ALM has been characterized by many on the left as racist because it doesn't fit the BLM agenda.

But the goal is to draw attention to the fact that our society doesn't treat all races the same.

If someone says, "black lives matter," and your response is "all lives matter," you're saying that blacks and whites are already treated the same by society.

And that's one of the bullshit rationalizations.

That's not what "All Lives Matter" means.

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:42:00 PM (view original):
When you hear someone say black lives matter, what do you think they mean?

Tec?

That if I get shot holding a BB gun in Wal-Mart that they don't give a ****. Do you think they'd run a protest in my honor?

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 3:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:42:00 PM (view original):
When you hear someone say black lives matter, what do you think they mean?

Tec?

I'm talking about ALM. I'm not getting pulled into one of your bullshit distraction side-arguments.

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/21/2017 3:09:00 PM (view original):
That if I get shot holding a BB gun in Wal-Mart that they don't give a ****. Do you think they'd run a protest in my honor?

BL(M)?

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:42:00 PM (view original):
When you hear someone say black lives matter, what do you think they mean?

You know that WAAAAYYY more black people are killed by other black people than by white people, right?

Posted by tecwrg on 4/21/2017 3:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 3:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:42:00 PM (view original):
When you hear someone say black lives matter, what do you think they mean?

Tec?

I'm talking about ALM. I'm not getting pulled into one of your bullshit distraction side-arguments.

It's two sides to the same coin. You said my interpretation of all lives matter was wrong. What's your interpretation of black lives matter?

Posted by MikeT23 on 4/21/2017 3:09:00 PM (view original):
That if I get shot holding a BB gun in Wal-Mart that they don't give a ****. Do you think they'd run a protest in my honor?

You're white. You're safe holding a gun at Wal-Mart. ****, you can kill 8 black folk at a church in SC and they'll take you to burger king before they book you.

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:42:00 PM (view original):
When you hear someone say black lives matter, what do you think they mean?

The biggest problem with the BLM movement is the total lack of rationality and consistency. They treat every case where a black person dies at the hands of police equally. And they're not all equal. Some are killed by black cops. Some are killed by white cops, with black police chiefs saying it was justifiable. Some of them just plain deserved it. When a black man dies at the hands of a black cop and those cops get targeted too, then it just becomes an excuse to further an anti-police agenda - it's no longer about race at that point.

There are some pretty serious cases of cops unjustly gunning down black men (Walter Scott, Eric Garner, etc.), and those cases should be protested and brought to light. But when you lump that in with a case where a black guy points a loaded gun at, or attacks a cop and gets shot for his efforts, you lose all credibility. Case and point - Michael Brown, the one who started the recent movement. There is video footage of him committing a violent crime shortly before being killed, and there were witnesses saying he jumped the cop and tried to get his gun. But of course all you hear from his family is what an angel he was and how he didn't deserve it, and then they burn down a city. Do you think that's going to get people to take your cause seriously?

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 12:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 4/21/2017 12:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 12:41:00 PM (view original):
Great. Back to my original point, Crawford wasn't a violent criminal.

Perhaps not. But suppose you (or MikeT or whomever) is standing in a WalMart holding a BB gun. Some alarmist ******** (possibly even a racist alarmist ********) calls 911 and says "There's a guy wearing a BL t-shirt waving a gun around WalMart. I'm afraid he's gonna start shooting!"

Cops/SWAT get the message "Active shooter at WalMart, wearing a BL t-shirt". They're not gonna say "Hmmm, probably just a misunderstanding. Let's go talk to the person and clear this up." They're gonna go it with guns ready, possibly twitchy because they've never been around this kind of situation. They turn the corner, and the guy looks up and makes eye contact.

Were the cops wrong to shoot him? Probably. But not racist. They were responding to a call. They see a guy with a gun.

That's a problem.

It's a problem if they are twitchy and nervous and wrongly shoot anyone. My original point was that even people who aren't outwardly racist, who don't have any problems with black people, aren't in the KKK, etc., are prone to treating black people differently than how they'd treat white people in the same situation. Mike illustrated the point brilliantly when talking about how riots in another state cause him to be more wary of young black people.

That unfortunately common human reaction is unacceptable in the police force. Being a cop is hard. If you can't do it, you shouldn't be a cop.

They are twitchy and nervous EVERY time they pull sometime over or go on a call regardless of color. ****, I would be too considering the unpredictability of their job.

Posted by wylie715 on 4/21/2017 1:09:00 PM (view original):
I don't care what color a person is, if I'm a cop going into a situation where someone has a gun, I'm going to be a little nervous.

Yep

Posted by Jtpsops on 4/21/2017 4:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/21/2017 2:42:00 PM (view original):
When you hear someone say black lives matter, what do you think they mean?

The biggest problem with the BLM movement is the total lack of rationality and consistency. They treat every case where a black person dies at the hands of police equally. And they're not all equal. Some are killed by black cops. Some are killed by white cops, with black police chiefs saying it was justifiable. Some of them just plain deserved it. When a black man dies at the hands of a black cop and those cops get targeted too, then it just becomes an excuse to further an anti-police agenda - it's no longer about race at that point.

There are some pretty serious cases of cops unjustly gunning down black men (Walter Scott, Eric Garner, etc.), and those cases should be protested and brought to light. But when you lump that in with a case where a black guy points a loaded gun at, or attacks a cop and gets shot for his efforts, you lose all credibility. Case and point - Michael Brown, the one who started the recent movement. There is video footage of him committing a violent crime shortly before being killed, and there were witnesses saying he jumped the cop and tried to get his gun. But of course all you hear from his family is what an angel he was and how he didn't deserve it, and then they burn down a city. Do you think that's going to get people to take your cause seriously?

Ok, but away from the individual situations (I agree that there are times when the shooting is both justifiable and right), what's the problem with someone saying black lives matter?