they're supposed to be used. They're just not implemented well/right.

I don't think you could really ever use them. Example, 06-07 Rashard's 2pt%# is 50.3%. He actually shot 46%.

There are many players with super-inflated %#'s (20+ points above RL). If they want to use them, so be it, but we all know that will never happen. No reason to have a stat that is not ever used.

Lewis shot 50.48% from the 2 that season... what are you talking about? That's not inflated numbers, that's DEFLATED.

The big issue is that the numbers aren't inflated enough to make older scorers viable (like Elgin Baylor, for example). I'd like to know what the "normalization" is supposed to be. As in, fg%+ times what? Is it 45%? 46%? And what's the justification for said variable? Right now the league shoots in the mid 40s pretty consistently from year to year. 30 years ago they shot much closer (if not above) to 50%. 50 years ago they shot in the low 40s. The 2pt%# is supposed to be a normalization factor that seems to have been implemented poorly, but it does work to an extent.

Not sure why you say it's not used in the sim, because I'm 99% sure it is. FG%+ is not used in the sim engine directly - it's what is used to figure 2pt%# and 3pt%#, but I still see very little correlation to that.

for reference:

#724 Advanced Stats Q. What is 2pt%#?
A. 2pt%# is the player's normalized shooting percentage from 2 point range. In order to level the different NBA eras, we use a form of normalization for both 2pt% and 3pt%. This number indicates what the player would be expected to shoot from 2 point range against a team of historically average defensive players. It can be a great tool to compare players of different eras.

says the same thing for 3pt%+, only it changes 2 to 3.

Sorry Ash, but the true number is 46%. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lewisra02.html

The term "a great tool to compare" says it all. IF normalization were used, they would use this number.

They use it to come up with the 2pt%#, but they do not use 2pt%#. It is worded very tricky, but they never say they use 2pt%# in the SIM.

That is why I think it is so stupid to have it at all.


edit-I have asked this question on the forums before and Seble refuses to answer it.

Dude... That's his FG% - not his 2pt%.

FGM: 463
FGA: 1005
FG%: .461
3PM: 151
3PA: 387

1005 -387 = 618 (2 POINT FGA)
463 - 151 = 312 (2 POINT FGM)


312/618 = 0.5048 (2 POINT FG%)

.5048 DNE .4601

What part of that don't you understand?


Seble said fg%+ wasn't used.
That's when they made 2pt%# and 3pt%#. And I believe those numbers are used due to the numbers I consistently see put up in OL (where historically average defensive teams are the norm). When you see an increase of 5%+ fg% on a non-3point shooting guy on a team with barely 50% ast%, there's more than running up-tempo at play here.

Thanks, Ash. This is amazing....I have always thought that fg% reflected only 2 point shots, and 3pt% well that's obvious.
How f*cking stupid is it to use a number (fg%) that in itself is totally meaningless? Unless 2 and 3 pointers were both given the same value, FG% is a completely useless number, correct? I mean why not just show 2pt%, 3pt% and eFG%?

If Seble wants to jump in and clear up 2pt%#, that'd be swell.

Again, thanks.

technically... They are all shots from the field.
Since there wasn't a 3-point line for the first 30+ years of the league, it makes sense that fg% is all shots from the field. And since people didn't start going bomber crazy till the mid/late 90s, efg% wasn't even a big deal... That's why it's there, anyway.

NP.

Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 5/12/2010It should be within the next 2-3 weeks. Either way it won't affect leagues in progress if that's what you're worried about

Could we expect to see the release next week Seble?

how we coming, Seble?

Typical NBA SIM service. Why don't they just admit they're hoping this thing shrivels up and dies. Shame too: it was once a great game with a ton of customers.

C'mon, man - don't poison the well just when it looks like a bucket of water is on the way up.

I'd love to see more consistent WIS attention paid to the NBA game, but I'm glad my favorite leagues are still alive and well. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the promised changes to defensive and positional ratings put certain players on a more realistic level.

well, 3 weeks would be 21 days which would be today, so don't hang him up by the balls for that. I didn't honestly expect it in 2-3 weeks... I just would like to hear how far out he thinks they are now.

(echoes brad's statements about PE and DEF)

He's the one who gave a 2-3 week ETA. If it were close to being ready for release he would announce it. At this point I'm confident that he is not close to releasing it.

I have no problem if it would take him another couple of weeks or a month, but he needs to get on here and let us know.

agree with Shine, its about setting expectations. Let us know when it can be done dont over-promise and under-deliver