Posted by bad_luck on 9/2/2014 5:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 9/2/2014 5:08:00 PM (view original):
IOW, if I see you standing on the street, minding your own business, I can probably get you arrested by saying "There's a guy over here that is bothering my family.  I think he looks like trouble."  Especially now that I know you'll refuse to show your ID.

When the cops come, they will probably talk quietly to you, and ask for your ID so they can run a quick check for warrants, etc.  If you repeated refuse and say "Eff you, I know my rights", they will probably take you in until they determine who you are and whether you are, indeed, a troublemaker.

Is it right?  NO, but it's not the cops fault.  Whoever called it in put the "trouble" into the complaint.  The cops are just reacting to what they've been told.

He wasn't suspected of a crime. Without that suspicion, he has the right to now show ID (and not get arrested for the refusal). Figuring out who you are in a state that doesn't have stop and identify laws isn't a right the cops have.

Probably not as much as the people who got blew the **** up but it would have been nice if a cop had said "Could you show us some ID?" before they blew up the place.

Or would that have been against their rights in MA?

Posted by moy23 on 9/2/2014 5:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/2/2014 5:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 9/2/2014 5:08:00 PM (view original):
IOW, if I see you standing on the street, minding your own business, I can probably get you arrested by saying "There's a guy over here that is bothering my family.  I think he looks like trouble."  Especially now that I know you'll refuse to show your ID.

When the cops come, they will probably talk quietly to you, and ask for your ID so they can run a quick check for warrants, etc.  If you repeated refuse and say "Eff you, I know my rights", they will probably take you in until they determine who you are and whether you are, indeed, a troublemaker.

Is it right?  NO, but it's not the cops fault.  Whoever called it in put the "trouble" into the complaint.  The cops are just reacting to what they've been told.

He wasn't suspected of a crime. Without that suspicion, he has the right to now show ID (and not get arrested for the refusal). Figuring out who you are in a state that doesn't have stop and identify laws isn't a right the cops have.

He was arrested in a building. That's not public property and when asked to move by building security you move. You don't move then the cops are called which is what happened.

To be more specific he was sitting on a chair IN the skyway at the First National Bank building. Not on a sidewalk. That is why he was arrested for trespassing (he was asked by security to keep moving, multiple times over multiple days).

Posted by bad_luck on 9/2/2014 5:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 9/2/2014 5:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/2/2014 5:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 9/2/2014 5:08:00 PM (view original):
IOW, if I see you standing on the street, minding your own business, I can probably get you arrested by saying "There's a guy over here that is bothering my family.  I think he looks like trouble."  Especially now that I know you'll refuse to show your ID.

When the cops come, they will probably talk quietly to you, and ask for your ID so they can run a quick check for warrants, etc.  If you repeated refuse and say "Eff you, I know my rights", they will probably take you in until they determine who you are and whether you are, indeed, a troublemaker.

Is it right?  NO, but it's not the cops fault.  Whoever called it in put the "trouble" into the complaint.  The cops are just reacting to what they've been told.

He wasn't suspected of a crime. Without that suspicion, he has the right to now show ID (and not get arrested for the refusal). Figuring out who you are in a state that doesn't have stop and identify laws isn't a right the cops have.

He was arrested in a building. That's not public property and when asked to move by building security you move. You don't move then the cops are called which is what happened.

To be more specific he was sitting on a chair IN the skyway at the First National Bank building. Not on a sidewalk. That is why he was arrested for trespassing (he was asked by security to keep moving, multiple times over multiple days).

All skyways in St. Paul are public property.

Posted by MikeT23 on 9/2/2014 5:37:00 PM (view original):
Looks like it would have been a violation of their rights to be forced to show ID. 

Good law.

Posted by bad_luck on 9/2/2014 4:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by toddcommish on 9/2/2014 4:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 9/2/2014 4:56:00 PM (view original):
Sure. But the police get held to a higher standard since they are the professionals.

They're also the ones who are RESPONDING to a report about someone causing trouble.  They don't have the luxury of walking away.

Um yeah they do. Once they got there and saw what the complaint was (black guy sitting in public) they should have walked away.