Obama: Worst President Ever? Topic

MikeT23
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ISIS is not a country.   I have no idea how many militants they have but I know they have to have leadership.  While I imagine it's against some law of conflict, you target their leaders.  Maybe some one steps in and takes their place, maybe the infrastructure begins to collapse.  That's where you start.
1/29/2016 8:17 PM
dahsdebater
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Maybe it is a country, maybe it isn't.  That's gonna be based on some arbitrary definition of sovereignty.  It's certainly not recognized by the UN or most of the world's nations.

But it's the only thing resembling a viable government in a territory that is, again, roughly the size of Nebraska.  They have laws, they have enforcement.  Citizens actually follow the laws, for the most part.  They have a functional military.  That's a lot more than can be said for Somalia.
1/29/2016 8:32 PM
tecwrg
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"While I imagine it's against some law of conflict, you target their leaders."

I would imagine that the "laws of conflict" that you are referring to would only apply to recognized foreign governments.  As you point out, ISIS is not a country with a legally recognized government.  They would likely not be protected by the "laws of conflict" as defined by the Geneva Convention or other similar agreements.
1/29/2016 8:33 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by dahsdebater on 1/29/2016 8:32:00 PM (view original):
Maybe it is a country, maybe it isn't.  That's gonna be based on some arbitrary definition of sovereignty.  It's certainly not recognized by the UN or most of the world's nations.

But it's the only thing resembling a viable government in a territory that is, again, roughly the size of Nebraska.  They have laws, they have enforcement.  Citizens actually follow the laws, for the most part.  They have a functional military.  That's a lot more than can be said for Somalia.
Syria and Iraq have legally recognized governments.  The fact that ISIS may be operating within those countries as a rogue entity probably does not give them de facto recognition to receive the same kind of protection as legally recognized governments/countries.
1/29/2016 8:38 PM
MikeT23
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If they were a country, war could be declared on them and I'm not sure what person/country is gonna say "Whoa.  Let's not rush into this."    They are an organization that has taken over an area roughly the size of Nebraska.   They do not have citizens.   There are people who live in the area.  I imagine some support ISIS and some who do not. 

Again, they have leaders.   Targeting them would not be breaking the laws of conflict.

1/29/2016 8:38 PM
dahsdebater
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'Cause the strategy of taking out the top officials has worked so well against Al Q'Aida...
1/29/2016 8:41 PM
MikeT23
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Oh, that's right.  You're Mr.Nothingwecando.   May as well just sit on our thumbs and wait to see what happens next.
1/29/2016 8:47 PM
dahsdebater
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Well, if we hadn't decided a military response was the correct action following 9/11, and had done nothing instead, ISIS wouldn't exist.  Al Q'aida is bigger now than it was then, but that might have happened anyway.  So I guess we can just blame ISIS on our military activities in the Middle East.

So yeah, doing nothing would have been better.  Unambiguously so.

1/29/2016 8:52 PM
tecwrg
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Is Al Qaeda more or less of a threat to the US today than it was in the months after 9/11?
1/29/2016 9:14 PM
BlueBladeAce
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Posted by tecwrg on 1/29/2016 9:14:00 PM (view original):
Is Al Qaeda more or less of a threat to the US today than it was in the months after 9/11?
 If they could do it, they would nuke the US. and Canada. So would ISIS. ISIS resembles Assyria as described in the Bible and it could well end up   as such. Our own country cowered from even having the air force in there. If we don't stop these creeps,. they will eventually start their stuff on our soil, and I believe they are already here. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if they allied with the Mexican drug gangs and just stormed over the borders, as in like 100,000 of them; beheading and shooting at will. Obama is imo the worst you have ever had, Jimmy Carter imo is the second worst.
1/29/2016 9:26 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by BlueBladeAce on 1/29/2016 9:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 1/29/2016 9:14:00 PM (view original):
Is Al Qaeda more or less of a threat to the US today than it was in the months after 9/11?
 If they could do it, they would nuke the US. and Canada. So would ISIS. ISIS resembles Assyria as described in the Bible and it could well end up   as such. Our own country cowered from even having the air force in there. If we don't stop these creeps,. they will eventually start their stuff on our soil, and I believe they are already here. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if they allied with the Mexican drug gangs and just stormed over the borders, as in like 100,000 of them; beheading and shooting at will. Obama is imo the worst you have ever had, Jimmy Carter imo is the second worst.
No worries.  President Trump's wall will keep 'em out.
1/29/2016 9:33 PM
moy23
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Posted by BlueBladeAce on 1/29/2016 9:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 1/29/2016 9:14:00 PM (view original):
Is Al Qaeda more or less of a threat to the US today than it was in the months after 9/11?
 If they could do it, they would nuke the US. and Canada. So would ISIS. ISIS resembles Assyria as described in the Bible and it could well end up   as such. Our own country cowered from even having the air force in there. If we don't stop these creeps,. they will eventually start their stuff on our soil, and I believe they are already here. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if they allied with the Mexican drug gangs and just stormed over the borders, as in like 100,000 of them; beheading and shooting at will. Obama is imo the worst you have ever had, Jimmy Carter imo is the second worst.
Obama... Worst. President. Ever.
1/29/2016 10:39 PM
dahsdebater
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Hilarious.

Jimmy Carter probably does make the top 4 or 5 worst presidents in history.  I don't think either Obama or Bush ends up on that list.
1/30/2016 1:43 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by dahsdebater on 1/29/2016 8:52:00 PM (view original):
Well, if we hadn't decided a military response was the correct action following 9/11, and had done nothing instead, ISIS wouldn't exist.  Al Q'aida is bigger now than it was then, but that might have happened anyway.  So I guess we can just blame ISIS on our military activities in the Middle East.

So yeah, doing nothing would have been better.  Unambiguously so.

So, to be clear, after a terrorist organization proudly takes responsibility for killing thousands of Americans, your solution is to do nothing.  Simply because it might infuriate that group, or a stronger group, who will cause more deaths.


Let me ask this.   You hear a noise outside at 3 AM.   You peek out the window.   Teenagers are vandalizing your car.   Do you:  A) confront them in an effort to make them stop  B) go back to bed because, if you confront them, they might come back later with meaner teenagers and vandalize your house?



1/30/2016 6:52 AM
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