Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 7/26/2008I think the case for abrondon is that we don't do a good enough job of explaining some intricacies of the game in the Draft Center. That's a very valid point and I'd like to add some more drafting tips to explain some of the possession penalties and things like that

Seble, I think you need to explain to everyone exactly what causes the possession penalty to kick in (not enough total possessions drafted, not enough total "usage %" on the court, etc).

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There are two different penalties. There is an individual player penalty, which kicks in if they've exceeded a value that is a combination of their individual possessions per 82 games and their possessions per minute.

The other penalty comes into play if you don't have enough Usage% on the court at a particular time. We basically assign points to each of the 5 players based on their Usage%, and if the sum is under a certain level then a penalty applies based on how far under you are. So you could avoid the penalty by having one or two high volume guys with some role players, or by having a balance of middle volume guys.

What are you defining as high and middle volume usage?
Those are relative terms until there's something to base it on.
Do you need 100% usage on the floor at all times? 50%? 32.74569821%? Is a 15% usage guy considered low, medium or high?
Do you see what I mean?
I haven't really run into trouble with it because I draft a lot of possessions because I like up-tempo, but it would be very good to know just what you mean for other owners who like to run slow-down (or if I wanted to change up my style, etc).

Thanks in advance!

I think they try to pattern on real game conditions so maybe check your average 5 on the floor from recent NBA seasons to get an idea? total guess - slightly educated

and seble you still havent told us how the penalty works - does it effect FG%? does it increase likelihood of turnovers? how does it manifest itself?

I think that's what he's trying to get his head around...

We don't want to give out exact definitions of everything inside the SimEngine, but it should be intuitive. If you have all role players out there, then they'll probably struggle to execute offensively (including FG%, turnovers, etc.). If you have a volume possession guy like Kobe or Jordan then you'll probably be fine unless you have all very low possession guys with them. The very top guys like Wilt are enough by themselves to avoid penalty.

It doesn't directly relate to total Usage% since there are tiers that are given points. You don't need 100% total or anything like that. This isn't something that should affect a reasonably balanced team with a realistic number of possessions.

Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 7/26/2008(1) We don't want to give out exact definitions of everything inside the SimEngine, but it should be intuitive. If you have all role players out there, then they'll probably struggle to execute offensively (including FG%, turnovers, etc.). (2) If you have a volume possession guy like Kobe or Jordan then you'll probably be fine unless you have all very low possession guys with them. The very top guys like Wilt are enough by themselves to avoid penalty.

(3) It doesn't directly relate to total Usage% since there are tiers that are given points. You don't need 100% total or anything like that. This isn't something that should affect a reasonably balanced team with a realistic number of possessions

(1) I'm not looking for "exact definitions for everything", I just want the parameters of the possession penalty more clearly defined. For example, it is very straightforward in the NHL sim. If a forward plays more than 18 minutes or a defenseman plays more than 22 minutes they suffer an in-game penalty.

(2) I think you need to clarify this. Wilt Chamberlain only has one season that is in the top 20 when you search by usage %.

(3) Let's say Team A has players on the court with usage % of 30%, 30%, 5%, 5%, 5% and Team B players on the court all have usage % of 15%. They both add up to 75%. Are you saying they will be treated differently with regards to the possession penalty?

Also, WIS previously used the formula FGA+(0.78*FTA)+TO to determine who shot the ball on offense, any possible possession penalties, etc. Should this be disregarded now?

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Scott, nobody is going to steal WIS ideas, and even if they did, why would you care, you guys have a "stranglehold" on the market.

When protecting your ideas becomes withholding vital user information...you might want to rethink your stance.

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We now use FGA+(0.44*FTA)+TO to calculate possessions/usage.

Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 7/27/2008(1) I'm trying to give you parameters without giving away every detail. If you have an existing team you'd like me to check I can.

(1) The team I have in the $20M league has a starting lineup of 96-97 Karl Malone (Usage % of 32.9%), 63-64 Jerry West (Usage % of 28.1%) and the 3 WIS generated rookies with ratings of 1-1-1-A. If me and my opponent are both running an uptempo offense, will my team suffer a possession penalty?

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Quote: Originally Posted By tianyi7886 on 7/27/2008I think you are fine because Seble said anyone with usage close to a Wilt season is enough. I'm sure Karl Malone + jerry west has more usage% than the 50ppg wilt.

That is what I suspect seble will say, I just want to confirm.