Obama: Worst President Ever? Topic

Eh, I'm not convinced.

Best case scenario, the fair tax is a gigantic undertaking that accomplishes nothing, worst case, it's a gigantic undertaking that shifts the tax burden away from the upper class and moves it on to the middle and lower classes.
6/9/2015 9:13 PM
Posted by moy23 on 6/5/2015 7:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/5/2015 4:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 6/5/2015 4:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/5/2015 10:57:00 AM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 6/5/2015 5:38:00 AM (view original):
I was offered health care(wife's was better), got 10 days of paid vacation(as much unpaid as I wanted within reason), and invested in my retirement on my own.

I left for multiple reasons. I got a job where I have weekends off, I made more money, and started doing something I love even more, selling beer.
You got out because it's a young man's(or woman's) job.    You get older and the "fun" part of the job started to suck.   Being up til 4 and sleeping til early afternoon became problematic to spending time with wifey and friends.    Interacting with interesting people became "serving drunk ******* who tell the same story I've heard a hundred times".    The drunken chick poon became off-limits, well, because wifey wasn't putting up with that ****.

The only old bartenders are owners and/or old women who have no other skillset.

Unlike moy, I think creating service industry jobs is important.   It gives young people, even if it's part-time, the ability to join the work force.   They develop skills that will hopefully allow them to move up the job ladder.   It's not "I'm a great President!!!" material but it's better than nothing. 
I agree with your last paragraph... I've said multiple times in this thread its 'nice' to see the unemployment number dropping, but a quick look under the sheets shows its nothing to brag about at this point. 500,000 more part-time jobs, stagnant wages, and low quality job creation is what you will see upon a closer look at that specific unemployment number.

I'd have like to have seen more manufacturing, construction, and technology jobs which do much more for ones career and to promote the health economy overall. I'd have like to seen a big drop in corporate tax rates to accomplish this... Invite companies like Toyota and Honda to refurbish out factories, hire our workers, and make/assemble more products in the USA..... Invite companies like apple, google, etc to bring much of the trillions in offshore accounts back to the USA. Unfortunately that's not going to happen with this president.

I'd have also liked to have seen more money reallocated to education... In particular trade schools because plumbing, electrical, and other similar trades pay well, arent going away, and are in high demand.
_______________________________
I'd have like to have seen more manufacturing, construction, and technology jobs which do much more for ones career and to promote the health economy overall. I'd have like to seen a big drop in corporate tax rates to accomplish this
Reducing corporate tax rates does not increase hiring. More people buying cars/houses/etc. is the only thing that increases hiring in those fields. Without demand, you can lower the corporate tax rate to zero...it still won't increase hiring.
How do you explain the study below... And the mass exodus from Illinois?

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-unfriendly-business-environment-killing-jobs-growth/
Eh, I hadn't worked nights in five years nor had ever nailed any drunk poon.

It was a blast and I still miss it, but you're right there's a shelf life with bartenders and strippers. Hell, I was a UPS manager for five years responsible for load planning and haz mat shipping with 40 employees nder me and Then worked for a top ten law firm for four years. It wasn't for lack of skillset that I bartended, I genuinely loved it.

If there's a ton of server jobs bring created, there must be a demand for them. If there's a demand for them, the economy must be doing alright. All the places I know of don't take food stamps.
6/10/2015 1:30 AM
Posted by moy23 on 6/9/2015 4:44:00 PM (view original):
How will the fair tax plan affect economic growth?

With the penalty for working harder and producing more removed, Americans are free to keep every dollar they earn, and a new era of economic growth and job creation is unleashed. Hidden taxes are history, Americans are able to save more, and businesses invest more. Capital formation, the real source of job creation and innovation, is facilitated. Gross domestic product (GDP) increases by an estimated 10.5 percent in the first year alone. The FairTax as proposed raises the economy’s capital stock by 42 percent, its labor supply by 4 percent, its output by 12 percent, and its real wage rate by 8 percent.

As U.S. companies and individuals repatriate, on a tax-free basis, income generated overseas, huge amounts of new capital flood into the United States. With such a huge capital supply, real interest rates remain low. Additionally, other international investors will seek to invest here to avoid taxes on income in their own countries, thereby further spurring the growth of our own economy.

- See more at: https://fairtax.org/faq#sthash.p8j1wC4w.dpuf
Lol. That worked so well last time.
6/10/2015 1:30 AM
A slew of multinational corporations — who have crafted a campaign known as “WinAmerica” — are lobbying hard for Congress to enact a tax repatriation holiday, which would allow multinational corporations to bring money they have stashed offshore back to the U.S. at a dramatically lower tax rate. (Usually corporations pay the statutory 35 percent rate on repatriated earnings.)
The campaign has picked up a bit of steam, with Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX) introducing legislation this week to enact a tax holiday. Two Republican 2012 hopefuls — Tim Pawlenty and Mitt Romney — and House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) have all endorsed the idea. Their justification for supporting it is that corporations will use the repatriated money to invest domestically and create jobs.
However, the Congressional Research Service looked at a repatriation holiday approved by Congress in 2004 and found “little evidence exists that new investment was spurred.” In fact, many of the largest companies that took advantage of that holiday wound up cutting tens of thousands of jobs over the subsequent two years, as this table shows:

Corporation Amount Repatriated Layoffs In 2005-2006

Pfizer $37 billion 10,000
Merck $15.9 billion 7,000
Hewlett-Packard $14.5 billion 14,500
Honeywell $2.7 billion 2,000
Ford $900 million 30,000
Colgate-Palmolive $800 million 4,000

Even companies that actually used the money for domestic investment, like Dell, wound up spending their new-found windfall on projects that they were going to undertake even in the absence of a tax break. As MIT economist Kristen Forbes explained, “[Dell] said part of the money would be brought back to build a new plant in Winston-Salem, N.C. They did bring back $4 billion, and spent $100 million on the plant, which they admitted would have been built anyway.”
Overall, corporations used 92 percent of the money they brought back under the tax holiday to enrich their executives and buy back their own shares, not to invest in job creation. Several of the companies in the WinAmerica coalition already pay exceedingly low taxes due to the various loopholes and credits in the corporate tax code and through their use of offshore tax havens. The Joint Economic Committee found that a repatriation holiday would cost $78.7 billion.
6/10/2015 1:34 AM
We’ve known for years that the 2004 repatriation tax holiday did little to boost domestic investment or create US jobs, as promised by its backers. Now we are learning that many multinational corporations were not even interested in using the temporary holiday to cut their taxes. Instead, according to a new study, it may have been little more than an easy way for them to manipulate earnings to polish their financial statements.

Yet Congress remains seduced by the idea. After all, it looks free money–a plan that raises revenue but can be promoted as a tax cut. That’s why a decade ago lawmakers enacted a temporary tax break for multinational firms that brought their foreign earnings back to the US. And that’s why pols as diverse as Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) and Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) are pushing for a new version of a repatriation holiday today.
It was a terrible idea back in 2004. It is still a terrible idea—and two very different analyses help explain why.

The first, by the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation, estimates that while cutting taxes for one year on repatriated earnings briefly generates new revenue, it significantly increases the deficit even within Congress’ usual 10-year budget window.


According to a new JCT estimate, such a holiday would boost federal revenues by about $19 billion over the first two years as firms pay some tax on funds they would otherwise have kept overseas tax-free. But since multinationals are getting a tax break for bringing money back they would eventually have returned anyway (at higher rates), JCT figures the tax holiday would add almost $96 billion to the deficit over a decade. So much for free money.

The second study, by financial accounting experts Michaele Morrow of Northeastern University and Robert C. Ricketts of Texas Tech, looks closely at how firms responded to the 2004 tax break. Their fascinating conclusion: For many multinationals, the benefit of the holiday was not primarily tax savings at all. Rather, it provided an easy way to manage the earnings they report to shareholders by manipulating their financial statements.

To put it a bit more crudely: Congress let multinationals pay deeply discounted taxes on $350 billion in repatriated earnings largely to make them look good to Wall Street analysts.

The study, published in The Journal of the American Taxation Association, found that while some multinationals used the tax holiday to boost reported earnings, others took advantage of the tax break to reduce book income, all in an attempt to exactly match analysts’ expectations. Either way, many firms were not interested in maximizing real shareholder wealth by reducing taxes. Rather, they brought back only the amount necessary to hit financial reporting targets.

Morrow and Ricketts were answering a perplexing question: If about $800 billion in foreign earnings was available for repatriation at low tax rates, why did firms bring back only $350 billion?

To find out, they surveyed 596 multinationals that reported pre-tax foreign earnings and found less than 60 percent brought any money back at all, and overall they repatriated only about 44 percent of the amount they could have returned.

Why would a firm pass up a chance to bring money back to the US at a steeply-discounted tax rate?

The authors conclude there were two major reasons. The first, and most obvious, is that multinationals had better investment opportunities overseas, even after factoring in the very low tax on repatriated profits. For those firms, the tax holiday had no effect on either their investment decisions or their tax liability.

The second answer is less apparent to those of us who are not accounting geeks. In the words of Morrow and Ricketts, “firms may have viewed the tax holiday primarily as an opportunity to manage reported…earnings rather than an opportunity to save taxes.”

The good news, I suppose, is that since firms may not have been interested in maximizing tax savings, the revenue loss was not as bad as it might have been. But backers insisted the 2004 tax holiday would boost domestic investment and create new US jobs. Extensive other research has found little or no evidence that either happened.

Add it all up and the 2004 law appears to have gone far off the tracks. Firms didn’t increase domestic investment. They didn’t hire more US workers. Now we learn they didn’t even maximize their tax savings. Instead, in many cases, the tax holiday was mostly an opportunity to burnish their financial statements.

As Congress considers whether to declare another holiday, it should ask itself whether that’s the best use of tax revenue.
6/10/2015 1:38 AM
Posted by The Taint on 6/10/2015 1:30:00 AM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 6/5/2015 7:20:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/5/2015 4:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 6/5/2015 4:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/5/2015 10:57:00 AM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 6/5/2015 5:38:00 AM (view original):
I was offered health care(wife's was better), got 10 days of paid vacation(as much unpaid as I wanted within reason), and invested in my retirement on my own.

I left for multiple reasons. I got a job where I have weekends off, I made more money, and started doing something I love even more, selling beer.
You got out because it's a young man's(or woman's) job.    You get older and the "fun" part of the job started to suck.   Being up til 4 and sleeping til early afternoon became problematic to spending time with wifey and friends.    Interacting with interesting people became "serving drunk ******* who tell the same story I've heard a hundred times".    The drunken chick poon became off-limits, well, because wifey wasn't putting up with that ****.

The only old bartenders are owners and/or old women who have no other skillset.

Unlike moy, I think creating service industry jobs is important.   It gives young people, even if it's part-time, the ability to join the work force.   They develop skills that will hopefully allow them to move up the job ladder.   It's not "I'm a great President!!!" material but it's better than nothing. 
I agree with your last paragraph... I've said multiple times in this thread its 'nice' to see the unemployment number dropping, but a quick look under the sheets shows its nothing to brag about at this point. 500,000 more part-time jobs, stagnant wages, and low quality job creation is what you will see upon a closer look at that specific unemployment number.

I'd have like to have seen more manufacturing, construction, and technology jobs which do much more for ones career and to promote the health economy overall. I'd have like to seen a big drop in corporate tax rates to accomplish this... Invite companies like Toyota and Honda to refurbish out factories, hire our workers, and make/assemble more products in the USA..... Invite companies like apple, google, etc to bring much of the trillions in offshore accounts back to the USA. Unfortunately that's not going to happen with this president.

I'd have also liked to have seen more money reallocated to education... In particular trade schools because plumbing, electrical, and other similar trades pay well, arent going away, and are in high demand.
_______________________________
I'd have like to have seen more manufacturing, construction, and technology jobs which do much more for ones career and to promote the health economy overall. I'd have like to seen a big drop in corporate tax rates to accomplish this
Reducing corporate tax rates does not increase hiring. More people buying cars/houses/etc. is the only thing that increases hiring in those fields. Without demand, you can lower the corporate tax rate to zero...it still won't increase hiring.
How do you explain the study below... And the mass exodus from Illinois?

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-unfriendly-business-environment-killing-jobs-growth/
Eh, I hadn't worked nights in five years nor had ever nailed any drunk poon.

It was a blast and I still miss it, but you're right there's a shelf life with bartenders and strippers. Hell, I was a UPS manager for five years responsible for load planning and haz mat shipping with 40 employees nder me and Then worked for a top ten law firm for four years. It wasn't for lack of skillset that I bartended, I genuinely loved it.

If there's a ton of server jobs bring created, there must be a demand for them. If there's a demand for them, the economy must be doing alright. All the places I know of don't take food stamps.
Not nailing some drunk chick in the store room seems like a waste of a bartending job.

I'm sure tending bar would have been a lot of fun in my 20s, even early 30s, but dipping into my 40s/50s, no, not so much.   There's a lot worse things to be doing.

As someone who was in the business, I'm sure you know why there is a demand for them.   A lot of them are women in their early 20s and they're unreliable.   That makes them expendable/replaceable.   A demand for server jobs doesn't necessarily mean the economy is doing alright.   But, to be fair, a lot of bars closed in 2007-2008.    Not because they were busy on Fri/Sat/Sun but because they were empty the other 4 days of the week.   And that was because the economy sucked.  Thanks Obama.
6/10/2015 8:26 AM
Yeah, Obama had a pretty big impact on the economy in 07 and 08. Sucked all kinds of ***.
6/10/2015 10:07 AM
Pre-emptive strike because people knew Obama would **** up the US economy.
6/10/2015 10:38 AM
Do I need to use a  to indicate sarcasm and/or an attempt at humor?
6/10/2015 10:39 AM
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MOST OF THAT GAS COMES FROM THE WINDBAG LEFT!!!!!
6/11/2015 9:49 AM
Obama has cut petroleum production by 33% and we are at our lowest Federal output since 2007.
6/13/2015 2:58 PM
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It's true. Obama has shut the Gulf down and drilling and production is down by 33%.  He's shutting down as much federal land to drilling as he can.  He has done everything in his power as the President of the UNITED States to please the environmentally mental challenged LEFT and destroy our fuel production. 

Unfortunately for commies like you and the failed policies lemmings, who will never be diverted in their effort to march civilization over the cliff of existence, you will never get it. You are so high on your propaganda you will never reach that fork in the road the common people call common sense and reality. You will live on your dream cloud for as long as the rest of us enable you.  And when it crashes, because it is unrealistic and unsupportable, you will be the first to attack the people who enabled the dream in the first place. You do it every day. You will never stop. It is ridiculous to argue with you. The only non-violent defense is at the ballot box and you have attacked it and destroyed the integrity of the vote. And when liberals win…we all lose.  

And right now you are winning.  And for the last 7 years all of us have been losing.
6/13/2015 3:44 PM
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Obama: Worst President Ever? Topic

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