Obama: Worst President Ever? Topic

MikeT23
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Posted by mchales_army on 5/15/2015 9:25:00 AM (view original):
But you do serve them. You serve them anything and everything EXCEPT that marble wedding cake.

How is it OK to refuse to make a **** cake then?

Just some things are OK to be offended by but others aren't?

Because that's what is being put forth here.

We the GOV'T will tell you what is and isn't offensive to you.

Really?

Pretty much.   I've already said I don't agree but the law is what the law is.    If you can litigate it, someone will.

You refuse to make a cake because it's a gay/biracial marriage, you're discriminating.   You will lose in court.
You refuse to make a **** cake, you're not discriminating.   You will win in court because a **** cake will be considered offensive.
You refuse to make a cake stating "Death to All Jews, you're not discriminating.   You will win because it's an "inflammatory" statement.

I seriously have no idea how "Marriage is between a man and a woman" is offensive or inflammatory but, if it's gone to court, I assume the business owner won.  Otherwise, you wouldn't bring it up.
5/15/2015 9:37 AM
tecwrg
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Posted by bad_luck on 5/15/2015 9:30:00 AM (view original):
If Joe's Bakery prefers not to sell cakes for biracial weddings, there are plenty of other bakeries that will. Biracial couples will stop buying their baked goods at Joe's, and there will be some percentage of the white population that will also stop buying from Joe's. If the market causes Joe's to lose enough business, he will have to either change his business model to start catering to biracial customers, or go out of business.
See?  Even the forum's resident retard agrees.
5/15/2015 9:39 AM
MikeT23
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It's a slipperly slope because people will, without question, begin discriminating due to "religious beliefs".

I've already told you that you're not going to legislate religious beliefs.   So, if the KKK business owners want to refuse service to minorities, they will create a religion that believes only whites are human.   And their business only serves humans.
5/15/2015 9:46 AM
MikeT23
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And, BTW, I'm sure a business could refuse to serve a dude dressed like this:

5/15/2015 9:47 AM
mchales_army
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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/15/2015 9:46:00 AM (view original):
It's a slipperly slope because people will, without question, begin discriminating due to "religious beliefs".

I've already told you that you're not going to legislate religious beliefs.   So, if the KKK business owners want to refuse service to minorities, they will create a religion that believes only whites are human.   And their business only serves humans.
That seems to be the big point everyone is missing.

When you say "my business only serves________" you are discriminating. Period.

When you welcome anyone but refuse A PARTICULAR SERVICE that goes against your own beliefs, you are NOT discriminating.

We have been conditioned to think that way, but it is absurd.

There is a big difference between the two, but most cannot or will not see it.

5/15/2015 9:51 AM
MikeT23
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When you say "I don't make cakes for gay weddings but I will gladly sell you a bagel", you are not discriminating against gays because you will sell them a bagel?    I can't imagine a single gay person feels that way. 


Seriously, I have no argument against refusing service for whatever reason you choose but I can't get my head around how refusing to make a cake for a gay wedding isn't discrimination. 
5/15/2015 9:59 AM
tecwrg
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How about this, mchales?

Tom and Bob walk into the Quik-E-Mart.  They both want to buy a Diet Coke and a Hershey bar.

Apu sells both items to Tom.  He is OK to sell Bob the Diet Coke, but he tells him he won't buy the Hershey bar because he's too fat.

Are you OK with that?



5/15/2015 10:23 AM (edited)
mchales_army
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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/15/2015 9:59:00 AM (view original):
When you say "I don't make cakes for gay weddings but I will gladly sell you a bagel", you are not discriminating against gays because you will sell them a bagel?    I can't imagine a single gay person feels that way. 


Seriously, I have no argument against refusing service for whatever reason you choose but I can't get my head around how refusing to make a cake for a gay wedding isn't discrimination. 
These are not the same.

One expresses enmity towards the particular INDIVIDUAL, whereas the other is enmity towards a particular ACTIVITY.
5/15/2015 11:11 AM (edited)
The Taint
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Isn't gluttony a sin?
5/15/2015 11:05 AM
mchales_army
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Posted by The Taint on 5/15/2015 11:05:00 AM (view original):
Isn't gluttony a sin?
Absolutely.
5/15/2015 11:17 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by mchales_army on 5/15/2015 11:11:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/15/2015 9:59:00 AM (view original):
When you say "I don't make cakes for gay weddings but I will gladly sell you a bagel", you are not discriminating against gays because you will sell them a bagel?    I can't imagine a single gay person feels that way. 


Seriously, I have no argument against refusing service for whatever reason you choose but I can't get my head around how refusing to make a cake for a gay wedding isn't discrimination. 
These are not the same.

One expresses enmity towards the particular INDIVIDUAL, whereas the other is enmity towards a particular ACTIVITY.
What?  Do you not think that gay INDIVIDUALS feel that their particular ACTIVITY is just as worthy as your activities?

I'm conservative.  I'm not particularly opposed to SSM but I'm not a proponent of it either.   Seems to me that civil union would work just fine but some don't see it that way.   Now, if I tell a gay man that I don't really care what he does behind closed doors but I see no reason for him to be legally "married", how do you think he takes that? 
5/15/2015 11:31 AM
MikeT23
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At the end of the day, you're saying "I disagree with your legal activity.   Therefore, I will not serve you."

That's swings uncomfortably, to me, way right. 

Again, I agree that a baker should be able say "Nope, not making you a gay cake.   I will not make **** cakes.   I will not make a Nazi cake.   I won't even sell you a cake to be consumed at your biracial wedding."    However, that's not how the law works.  Even if you find a particular cake offensive, the law has to say it's offensive.  Otherwise, you lose in a court of law.
5/15/2015 11:41 AM
mchales_army
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Doesn't matter what they think, or how they take your belief. People believe different things everywhere.

They could very well be offended by my stance and stop being my customer.
That is absolutely there prerogative, but to force me to celebrate their behavior is beyond ridiculous.

To assert that one must celebrate every other persons activities is equally laughable.

There is a definite distinction no matter what anyone "feels" about it.
5/15/2015 11:47 AM
mchales_army
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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/15/2015 11:41:00 AM (view original):
At the end of the day, you're saying "I disagree with your legal activity.   Therefore, I will not serve you."

That's swings uncomfortably, to me, way right. 

Again, I agree that a baker should be able say "Nope, not making you a gay cake.   I will not make **** cakes.   I will not make a Nazi cake.   I won't even sell you a cake to be consumed at your biracial wedding."    However, that's not how the law works.  Even if you find a particular cake offensive, the law has to say it's offensive.  Otherwise, you lose in a court of law.
See that ISN'T what is being said. What's being said is:

"I disagree with your legal activity but will gladly serve you anything short of me having to be a participant in the activity that I disagree with".

Really isn't any more complicated than that.

5/15/2015 11:57 AM (edited)
MikeT23
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No, it is what's being said.   You're really dipping into badluckland on this one. 

You have your opinion and it's right.   Therefore, you are incapable of stepping back and thinking "What if I were wearing his shoes?   How would I feel?"

Assume you have a child out of wedlock.   The ultra-conservative store owner notices your lack of ring while you're trying to purchase a lollipop for your son.   He asks about "your wife".    You explain that you're not married but very committed to the relationship(why you'd go this deep into your personal life with a store owner is beyond me but you just did).   Store owner says "Sorry, I disagree with your lifestyle choice.  Your bastard son will not be eating lollipops from this store."

Is that OK with you? 

5/15/2015 11:57 AM
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