http://www.whatifsports.com/slb/Boxscore.aspx?gid=12166518&pid=1&pbp=0&tf=10

In this boxscore, my Mort Cooper was pulled 20 pitches before his 110/110 pitch count.  There's no doubt that he was struggling in the sixth inning, and in real life I would have wanted him out of the game.  In the SIM, however, I want him to throw those 20 additional pitches.  If he does, then 96% Jeff Montgomery doesn't have to come into the game.  Instead of being 100% for the following game, Montgomery was in the 80s and was unavailable.

I didn't suggest a call bullpen setting of 0 so I could cheat the system or tank games.  I don't play that way.  I just want Cooper to throw the 20 more pitches I wanted him to throw so that I don't have to micromanage the bullpen just to keep everyone healthy.  The effect is even greater when something like this happens in the first few games of the season, as anyone who is unlucky enough to go into extra innings in the first series of the year will attest.

My issue is why does Cooper get pulled after 4 runs with a call bullpen setting at 1, but Wilhelm, Griffith, Reynolds, and Adams all give up 15+ runs and are left in the game, even though a few of those times there were relievers at 100% available to replace them.  The current logic actually favors the people who want to tank games since it lets their relievers and mop-ups stay in to take unrealistic beatings, thus saving their other relievers from further fatigue.  The potential abuses that people have brought up in this thread already happen under the current system.

Tom said in an earlier post that "...enforcing some semblance of forced realism keeps things flowing".   Clearly, realism was forced on Cooper, but not on Wilhelm, Griffith, Reynolds, or Adams.  At a minimum, there's something wrong with the logic that allows this to happen.   A call bullpen setting of 0 wouldn't really change any of the tanking that is already allowed to take place in the current system, but at least it would allow legitimate players to manage their pitch counts.

No owner needs a call bullpen setting of 0.  I only suggested it because it takes logic and subjectivity out of play.  An overhaul of the current call bullpen logic could definitely alleviate some of the current issues and unrealistic beatings/abuses.  Either way would be an improvement over the current logic, which helps the tankers more than the non-tankers. 

The difference in the games you listed is pitcher role.

Wilhelm, for example, is a mopup pitcher with a very high pitch count. He enters in a 10-1 losing cause. He stays in forever because that's what the mopup role is all about. And a mopup role is very different from a starting pitcher role and is different from the other roles.

In the most recent boxscore, It's a tie game with a runner on third and your SP is lifted for a PH because, using baseball logic, it's more important to try and break open a tie and win the game in late innings than make sure an SP reaches another 20 pitches. As one user stated in this thread, we try to simulate baseball not math.

There's a balance involved between baseball realism and trying to adhere to a plethora of user settings.

Cooper was not lifted for a PH.  He was pulled with two outs in the 6th inning and replaced by Duane Ward.  It was Ward who got pinch-hit for, which is fine.  Even the real life logic of removing Cooper in the middle of the inning makes plenty of sense.  I would pull him if I were managing a real game, too.  But WIS isn't a real game.  Starters and Mop-ups should be treated differently, but the 100-pitch, 15-run relief appearances continue to show that the current call bullpen logic heavily favors unrealistic tanking from mops while making it very difficult to accurately control starters' pitch counts.

The baseball realism argument really doesn't hold up very well, either.  Just in the last month of MLB play, Scott Kazmir and Randy Wolf, who both started the game, were left in to give up 13 and 12 runs respectively, because their managers wanted to rest their taxed bullpens as much as possible.  Leaving a starter in to throw a greater number of pitches despite giving up runs is a "real" use of a starting pitcher.

In one of the boxscores I posted, 2009 Mike Adams (1.00 IP/G) gives up 15 runs over 123 pitches.  It's not at all "real" for a dedicated short reliever to suddenly throw 123 pitches in a game while giving up 12 walks and 15 runs in the process, whether he's being used in mop-up duty or not.  If baseball realism truly is the goal, it's not coming through in the results.

"using baseball logic, it's more important to try and break open a tie and win the game in late innings than make sure an SP reaches another 20 pitches."
Just last night (July 21), starting pitcher Joe Blanton was allowed to hit for himself with the bases loaded and two outs in the 7th inning of a tie game between the Phillies and Cardinals.  He had only thrown 74 pitches to that point.  Presumably, Charlie Manuel left Blanton in so he could throw more pitches and keep the Phillies from reaching into the bullpen for at least 3 innings of work.  The manager got to decide for himself how to use his starting pitcher and let him throw more pitches, even though it didn't coincide with traditional baseball logic (hit for the pitcher late in a tie game with runners on).  That's baseball realism that isn't found in the SIM.

Philadelphia - Top of 7th	SCORE
Jaime Garcia pitching for St. Louis	PHI	STL
R Howard flied out to center.	1	1
J Werth walked.	1	1
J Rollins singled to left, J Werth to second.	1	1
C Ransom struck out swinging.	1	1
C Ruiz walked, J Werth to third, J Rollins to second.	1	1
J Blanton struck out swinging.	1	1

   

A zero setting would be greatly beneficial in progressive leagues, where owners rarely have the luxury of having 4 200+ pitchers for their rotation.

If I need a poor pitcher to throw 95 pitches in a start in order to save the rest of my staff, but he gets yanked after 50 pitches, it can make a huuuuge difference in my fatigue for many, many games. As others have stated, things like that do happen in real-life, e.g., if a team plays a couple of extra-inning games, they may call a kid up from AAA to give 100 pitches, regardless of his effectiveness.

It's very frustrating to set up your settings for that to occur, but have Sparky over-ride the settings. Sparky's logic is limited to "what's best for the team this game," rather than "what's best for the team for the next week, month, or remainder of the season."

None of the arguments against a zero setting made in this thread are stronger than that, in my opinion.

We need a Zero setting. I have a team (theme league) that essentially has 5 SPs that I need to rotate in and out of the rotation. In each game, I have one of them at SUA/7 and another semi-tired one at SUB/8 in case of a 15-inning game. I've had several games where the SUA wasn't doing great and the tired SUB was brought in to blow the game.