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Can I have the last word?

Quote: Originally posted by mattedesa on 12/15/2009One thing I've never been able to find out is this: How far behind do you have to be before it becomes a mop-up situation in Sparky's eyes? If you're 4 runs down, does it bring in SetupA or Mopup? 5 runs? 6?

Does anyone know? I wish this could be decided in a pulldown menu.

It's more than 4.....I think it is 6 or 7.

thanks bardin and trentonjoe.....appreciate the input....we'll see what the follow up to my ticket is......I"m sure we all just want the sim to work as efficiently as possible....hopefully they understand what I am getting at.....

Quote: Originally Posted By truemen on 12/15/2009Can I have the last word

...

Of course you can.

Do you need a drum roll, Truemen?

Quote: Originally Posted By bardin on 12/15/2009

MnH, I sent you sitemail on this in more detail, but in short, I agree that something should be tweaked. Simply: If a starter that isn't starting the next game has a use-as-reliever option set, then that starter should be ranked higher than a mopup pitcher. I would expect that the starter in that situation would be equivalent to say, a Long B.

In that case, if the game gets close, the mopup should be pulled in favor of that starter, just as if there was another pitcher available in the pen that was set at long B.

I realize that a manager could cause the same behavior to occur by simply putting that starter in the bullpen with a Long B setting, but that would mean that the manager has to micromanage the team on a game-by-game basis. That shouldn't be necessary. This tweak should be made, and I think it would be easy to do.

This seems to be the hole in your understanding as well as that of mildnhazy. You seem to think that Sparky will automatically remove a mop-up pitcher just because the game gets close. That is absolutely NOT how Sparky treats your pitchers.

Pitchers' roles only matter BEFORE they enter the game. In other words, Sparky only looks at the role when he makes the call to the bullpen. When it's time for one pitcher to come out of the game, Sparky assesses the current situation and picks the reliever he thinks to be best. Once that reliever comes into the game Sparky no longer cares what his role is. He only considers the pitch count and pull settings; until the pitcher reaches his pitch count or struggles sufficiently to trigger a pull at his pull setting, Sparky will leave him in the game. Sparky doesn't pull the mopup just because a game gets closer. He doesn't even remember that it's a mopup guy anymore. He just sees that the guy has no pitch counts and assumes he has orders from higher up to leave him in until his arm falls off.

Mildnhazy, you seem to agree that when the mopup guy came into the game he was the right choice. If you agree that this is true, you have to admit that Sparky did exactly what he's programmed to do. He's not programmed to pull that mop-up guy when the game gets close. You have to do something to make the mop less entrenched once he comes in - a target pitch count, pull setting of 4 or 5, or just check the box for "use mop-ups only when losing." It's always the case that Sparky's inability to understand that a mop-up is a mop-up once he's in the game leaves the possibility of a mop being in a close game and causing you an unnecessary loss or 2 during the season. Some guys think it's worth it for the cheap inning. Some guys don't and don't use mop-ups. I don't usually use them in OLs but might in themes depending on the rules and parameters. That's the kind of personal choice that reflects the manager's style and is totally up to you with no inherently right answers. You do have to understand the game for what it is, though; don't complain about Sparky doing his job the way he's programmed to do it. Understand the tools and use them the best way for you, but don't complain when the tools aren't what you want them to be.

dahsdebater - thanks for weighing in on this - thoughtful response.

It has been my understanding that the mop up would be pulled once the game had gotten close.....bardin and I both assume this for some reason....I am almost certain I've seen that before but perhaps it was based on the mop ups pull settings. If that's the case that should certainly be a valid answer to my ticket. That wasn't the answer I received though....and I have yet to receive an answer to my follow up question.

If what you are saying is true (and I have no reason to believe otherwise as it makes perfect sense) why do you suppose I got the answer I received in my ticket?....and furthermore, in terms of improving the engine, wouldn't we rather Sparky pull the mop up in favour of a real pitcher once a game got close (especially considering the circumstances - one run game in the 9th inning)?....I understand you have to use the "tools" as given but there is no need to be satisfied with the status quo.......this game is constantly improving and updating and I don't see why this wouldn't be a logical improvement....maybe I'm missing something and I'm the only one who cares about this kind of thing - but like you said, games are lost during the season unneccessarily to this function.

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m-n-h, I have given up using the mop up at all because of similar experiences. I think the answers from dahsdebater sum things up the best, and that crazystengel's solution best fits my judgement. Personally, I never check the mop up box, and just let the mop ups lose a game or two when fatigue becomes too much of an issue. All that said, I have had times, as I am sure we all have, when a scrub outpitches a stud in a key situation. But i wrote this not because I have much to add to the discussion, obviously I don't. I thank you for sending in the ticket, and now I am anxious to see what the "improvement" will be.

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word

I'm not disagreeing with your point mildnhazy, but we all have to realize it's a computer we're dealing with...even with designated settings, there are glitches and "illogical" moves sometimes.

In one game last week, I had a 4-3 lead in the 8th. My Setup A guy was active and at 100% and the SIM brought in my Setup B guy, who promptly gave up 2 runs and I lost 5-4. I was ******, but it's bound to happen every now and then.

If situations like this are occurring all the time, I can see it. But once and a while, it's to be expected.

Plus what was the situation in your game?

If the game was 14-9, say, with two outs and the bases loaded and then your mop up guy gives up a grand slam to make it 14-13, I personally would still leave him in. You have two outs and no one on...doesn't make sense to waste a starter at that point. What were the circumstances after the 7th run was given up?

Interesting Discussion