Posted by tecwrg on 11/14/2014 12:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2014 12:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 11/14/2014 12:02:00 PM (view original):
What caused the last ice age to start?

What caused the last ice age to end?

Climate change went on long before humans were around.

Climate change will go on long after humans are gone.

The primary yet unspoken goal of much of the scientific research these days is to generate conclusions that will lead to getting additional funding to conduct further research, i.e. making careers.

Draw your own conclusions.

The climate has absolutely changed before. There have been periods of warming that were very gradual, allowing millions of years for life to adjust.

There were also periods of rapid warming that caused mass extinctions...like the end of the Permian Period. For the most part, we know why these rapid changes happened--things like volcanic eruptions and asteroid impacts caused a spike in CO2 levels that increased temperatures, caused ocean acidification, rising sea levels, etc. We're seeing the same types of rapid changes now, this time caused by us burning fossil fuels.

Again, if you want to justify sticking your head in the sand by telling yourself it's all a giant scientific conspiracy, be my guest. But, before you do, take a second to think about it.

How much funding is there really available on the "climate change is man made side" when compared to the "nope, not our fault, let's continue to buy oil...oh hey Exxon, how's the wife? Here's that data you were looking for. Direct deposit? That works for me, sorry to cut you off, Chevron is on the other line" side?

Concerning oil and other fossil fuels . . . that's one of the resources that will inevitably run out, sooner than later.  Mankind's growing consumption is unsustainable.  There's only so much oil in the ground.  Moy's attitude is foolish, as we absolutely should be looking for alternative and natural sources of fuel and energy.  Not to save the planet from carbon emissions and global warming.  But because there's only so much more oil left in the well.  And when it's all gone . . . then what?

I'm doing my small part.  We just had 48 solar panels installed on the roof of our house and garage last week.  The town came to inspect that everything was done according to code just this morning.  Now we're waiting on the electric company to come and swap out our old meter (which only monitored consumption of electricity from the grid) with a new meter (which monitors both consumption from and generation to the grid).  Hopefully, that happens next week.  They the solar company comes out and flips the switch.  By the end of next week, or early the following week, we'll be up and running.  The estimate from the proposal for the system we got is that, over the course of a year, we'll be generating around 99.7% of our electrical needs.

Again, we're not doing this out of concerns for the planet.  We're doing it because renewable energy instead of non-renewable energy makes sense.  Like I said, there's only so much oil left in the well,.

Posted by tecwrg on 11/14/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):
Here's my spiel on climate change and whatever "man" might be doing to the planet:

The earth has been around for billions of years.  It has thrived, and survived through multiple "extinction events", and has always bounced back to thrive again.

Mankind has only been around for an extremely small fraction of the earth's existence.  Yet, we somehow have the arrogance to believe that we have some sort of inherent "ownership" of the earth, that it "belongs" to us, and that change (which has been the one constant in 4.5 billion years of the history of the planet) should not occur.  People get all up in arms over rising sea levels, while sea levels and land masses have been constantly changing for billions of years.

The earth's population has been growing at an unsustainable level.  We are soon to be, or already are in many aspects, at the point where we do not have the resources to sustain the population and it's demand on resources.  Wars, disease, famine, etc, are inevitable.  Yet many people refuse to acknowledge this, or are in denial, of what is destined to be.  There will be another extinction event on this planet.  Maybe sooner, maybe later.  It may be caused by man, or it may be caused by an external force (i.e. a meteor strike).  Life as we know it today will perish.  Maybe a few will find a way to survive from the ashes, or maybe it will be a 100% loss of mankind.

But in the end . . . the planet will survive, like it always has.  It will thrive, like it always has.  The climate will change after all the people are gone, like it always has.  Sea levels will rise and fall, like they always have.  Land that is thriving with life today will become deserted and barren.  Land that is deserted and barren today will thrive with some sort of life.

And the cycle will continue until our sun finally dies, and the earth dies with it.

In other words . . . nothing to be concerned about.

Carry on, and enjoy the rest of your day.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2014 1:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 11/14/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):
Here's my spiel on climate change and whatever "man" might be doing to the planet:

The earth has been around for billions of years.  It has thrived, and survived through multiple "extinction events", and has always bounced back to thrive again.

Mankind has only been around for an extremely small fraction of the earth's existence.  Yet, we somehow have the arrogance to believe that we have some sort of inherent "ownership" of the earth, that it "belongs" to us, and that change (which has been the one constant in 4.5 billion years of the history of the planet) should not occur.  People get all up in arms over rising sea levels, while sea levels and land masses have been constantly changing for billions of years.

The earth's population has been growing at an unsustainable level.  We are soon to be, or already are in many aspects, at the point where we do not have the resources to sustain the population and it's demand on resources.  Wars, disease, famine, etc, are inevitable.  Yet many people refuse to acknowledge this, or are in denial, of what is destined to be.  There will be another extinction event on this planet.  Maybe sooner, maybe later.  It may be caused by man, or it may be caused by an external force (i.e. a meteor strike).  Life as we know it today will perish.  Maybe a few will find a way to survive from the ashes, or maybe it will be a 100% loss of mankind.

But in the end . . . the planet will survive, like it always has.  It will thrive, like it always has.  The climate will change after all the people are gone, like it always has.  Sea levels will rise and fall, like they always have.  Land that is thriving with life today will become deserted and barren.  Land that is deserted and barren today will thrive with some sort of life.

And the cycle will continue until our sun finally dies, and the earth dies with it.

In other words . . . nothing to be concerned about.

Carry on, and enjoy the rest of your day.

It's not arrogance or ownership. It's survival. I don't care if the world continues to exist once I'm dead. The idea that, "well, the world will survive with or without humans," is not a good reason to continue to do things that will cause all humans to become extinct.

Posted by moy23 on 11/14/2014 1:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2014 1:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 11/14/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):
Here's my spiel on climate change and whatever "man" might be doing to the planet:

The earth has been around for billions of years.  It has thrived, and survived through multiple "extinction events", and has always bounced back to thrive again.

Mankind has only been around for an extremely small fraction of the earth's existence.  Yet, we somehow have the arrogance to believe that we have some sort of inherent "ownership" of the earth, that it "belongs" to us, and that change (which has been the one constant in 4.5 billion years of the history of the planet) should not occur.  People get all up in arms over rising sea levels, while sea levels and land masses have been constantly changing for billions of years.

The earth's population has been growing at an unsustainable level.  We are soon to be, or already are in many aspects, at the point where we do not have the resources to sustain the population and it's demand on resources.  Wars, disease, famine, etc, are inevitable.  Yet many people refuse to acknowledge this, or are in denial, of what is destined to be.  There will be another extinction event on this planet.  Maybe sooner, maybe later.  It may be caused by man, or it may be caused by an external force (i.e. a meteor strike).  Life as we know it today will perish.  Maybe a few will find a way to survive from the ashes, or maybe it will be a 100% loss of mankind.

But in the end . . . the planet will survive, like it always has.  It will thrive, like it always has.  The climate will change after all the people are gone, like it always has.  Sea levels will rise and fall, like they always have.  Land that is thriving with life today will become deserted and barren.  Land that is deserted and barren today will thrive with some sort of life.

And the cycle will continue until our sun finally dies, and the earth dies with it.

In other words . . . nothing to be concerned about.

Carry on, and enjoy the rest of your day.

It's not arrogance or ownership. It's survival. I don't care if the world continues to exist once I'm dead. The idea that, "well, the world will survive with or without humans," is not a good reason to continue to do things that will cause all humans to become extinct.

Nobody is going extinct because of 'man-made global warming'. In a hundred years coal and oil will be a thing of the past just like candles before electricity and steam before coal. To tecs point - 100 to 200 years of burning oil is a blip on this earths existence. There's already plenty of indicators to suggest that we are moving on from oil.... I.e. fuel cell car research, hybrids, countries like France using nuclear power in 80% of the country.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2014 1:27:00 PM (view original):
Figure 1. Response distribution to the question, "Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?" (Source)

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/14/2014 1:22:00 PM (view original):
No risk with nuclear power.  Surely that won't harm the earth. 

Posted by moy23 on 11/14/2014 1:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2014 1:27:00 PM (view original):
Figure 1. Response distribution to the question, "Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?" (Source)

So what date can I plan my extinction party on?

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2014 1:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 11/14/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):
Here's my spiel on climate change and whatever "man" might be doing to the planet:

The earth has been around for billions of years.  It has thrived, and survived through multiple "extinction events", and has always bounced back to thrive again.

Mankind has only been around for an extremely small fraction of the earth's existence.  Yet, we somehow have the arrogance to believe that we have some sort of inherent "ownership" of the earth, that it "belongs" to us, and that change (which has been the one constant in 4.5 billion years of the history of the planet) should not occur.  People get all up in arms over rising sea levels, while sea levels and land masses have been constantly changing for billions of years.

The earth's population has been growing at an unsustainable level.  We are soon to be, or already are in many aspects, at the point where we do not have the resources to sustain the population and it's demand on resources.  Wars, disease, famine, etc, are inevitable.  Yet many people refuse to acknowledge this, or are in denial, of what is destined to be.  There will be another extinction event on this planet.  Maybe sooner, maybe later.  It may be caused by man, or it may be caused by an external force (i.e. a meteor strike).  Life as we know it today will perish.  Maybe a few will find a way to survive from the ashes, or maybe it will be a 100% loss of mankind.

But in the end . . . the planet will survive, like it always has.  It will thrive, like it always has.  The climate will change after all the people are gone, like it always has.  Sea levels will rise and fall, like they always have.  Land that is thriving with life today will become deserted and barren.  Land that is deserted and barren today will thrive with some sort of life.

And the cycle will continue until our sun finally dies, and the earth dies with it.

In other words . . . nothing to be concerned about.

Carry on, and enjoy the rest of your day.

It's not arrogance or ownership. It's survival. I don't care if the world continues to exist once I'm dead. The idea that, "well, the world will survive with or without humans," is not a good reason to continue to do things that will cause all humans to become extinct.

I challenge the idea that we're doing things with respect to the climate "that will cause all humans to become extinct".  Climate change happens with or without humans,  It goes beyond rational belief to say that 150 years of industrialization is bringing the planet to the brink of self-destruction.  The inevitable mass loss of life due to population growth outpacing the availability of the necessary resources to sustain it will be a tipping point long before whatever the climate change alarmists try to insist is happening will have any tangible effect.

Plus, the planet is much more resilient and self-regulating than the alarmists want you to believe.  A drastic reduction of the planet's population, whether by war, disease, famine, etc., will do wonders.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2014 1:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/14/2014 1:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2014 1:27:00 PM (view original):
Figure 1. Response distribution to the question, "Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?" (Source)

So what date can I plan my extinction party on?

I think the goal is to turn things around now so that extinction doesn't happen.

Posted by moy23 on 11/14/2014 1:46:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2014 1:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/14/2014 1:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/14/2014 1:27:00 PM (view original):
Figure 1. Response distribution to the question, "Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?" (Source)

So what date can I plan my extinction party on?

I think the goal is to turn things around now so that extinction doesn't happen.

I'm still recovering from Y2K, Nostradamous predictions, and the end of the Mayan Calendar. Please give me some time to grieve before the next end of the world scenario.

I'm all for killing people.    But, with Obamacare, people will live longer thus stressing resources even more.

Posted by moy23 on 11/14/2014 1:34:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/14/2014 1:22:00 PM (view original):
No risk with nuclear power.  Surely that won't harm the earth. 

Ten Myths about Nuclear Energy
http://www.nuclearconnect.org/know-nuclear/talking-nuclear/top-10-myths-about-nuclear-energy

# 1: Americans get most of their yearly radiation dose from nuclear power plants.

Truth: We are surrounded by naturally occurring radiation. Only 0.005% of the average American’s yearly radiation dose comes from nuclear power; 100 times less than we get from coal [1], 200 times less than a cross-country flight, and about the same as eating 1 banana per year [2].

# 2: A nuclear reactor can explode like a nuclear bomb.

Truth: It is impossible for a reactor to explode like a nuclear weapon; these weapons contain very special materials in very particular configurations, neither of which are present in a nuclear reactor.

#3: Nuclear energy is bad for the environment.

Truth: Nuclear reactors emit no greenhouse gasses during operation. Over their full lifetimes, they result in comparable emissions to renewable forms of energy such as wind and solar [3]. Nuclear energy requires less land use than most other forms of energy.

# 4: Nuclear energy is not safe.

Truth: Nuclear energy is as safe or safer than any other form of energy available. No member of the public has ever been injured or killed in the entire 50-year history of commercial nuclear power in the U.S. In fact, recent studies have shown that it is safer to work in a nuclear power plant than an office [4].

# 5: There is no solution for huge amounts of nuclear waste being generated.

Truth: All of the used nuclear fuel generated in every nuclear plant in the past 50 years would fill a football field to a depth of less than 10 yards, and 96 % of this “waste” can be recycled [5]. Used fuel is currently being safely stored. The U.S. National Academy of Sciences and the equivalent scientific advisory panels in every major country support geological disposal of such wastes as the preferred safe method for their ultimate disposal[6].

# 6: Most Americans don’t support nuclear power.

Truth: In a survey conducted in September 2013, it was found that 82% of Americans feel nuclear energy will play an important role in meeting the country’s future electricity needs, and half believe this importance will increase with time. In addition, 84% of respondents favor renewing operating licenses for nuclear power plants that continue to meet federal safety standards. Also, 77% believe that nuclear power plants operating in the United States are safe and secure, a four percentage point increase from last February[7].

# 7: An American “Chernobyl” would kill thousands of people.

Truth: A Chernobyl-type accident could not have happened outside of the Soviet Union because this type of reactor was never built or operated here. The known fatalities during the Chernobyl accident were mostly emergency first responders [8]. Of the people known to have received a high radiation dose, the increase in cancer incidence is too small to measure due to other causes of cancer such as air pollution and tobacco use.

# 8: Nuclear waste cannot be safely transported.

Truth: Used fuel is being safely shipped by truck, rail, and cargo ship today. To date, thousands of shipments have been transported with no leaks or cracks of the specially-designed casks [9].

# 9: Used nuclear fuel is deadly for 10,000 years.

Truth: Used nuclear fuel can be recycled to make new fuel and byproducts [10]. Most of the waste from this process will require a storage time of less than 300 years. Finally, less than 1% is radioactive for 10,000 years. This portion is not much more radioactive than some things found in nature, and can be easily shielded to protect humans and wildlife.

# 10: Nuclear energy can’t reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

Truth: Nuclear-generated electricity powers electric trains and subway cars as well as autos today. It has also been used in propelling ships for more than 50 years. That use can be increased since it has been restricted by unofficial policy to military vessels and ice breakers. In the near-term, nuclear power can provide electricity for expanded mass-transit and plug-in hybrid cars. Small modular reactors can provide power to islands like Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Nantucket and Guam that currently run their electrical grids on imported oil. In the longer-term, nuclear power can directly reduce our dependence on foreign oil by producing hydrogen for use in fuel cells and synthetic liquid fuels.