It appears that the closer definition was what actually caused the issue.

I think what needs explained to all of us is how the closer role code is written when the "Use Closer in Save Situations Only" is not checked.  There supposedly is some kind of underlying special code written for a pitcher in a closer's role.  We all pretty much know when a closer will enter the game when the "Use Closer in Save Situations Only" is checked, but when it is not checked it becomes more unclear.

To me, it seems that there has to be some underlying code written too as to when a closer with a "use closer in save situations only" isn't checked, and my hunch is that the code seems to take precedence over any box that we checkmark.

Whether that is the case or not, I absolutely agree with your position that if you checkmark  "Use Mopup Only When Losing", then that should be honored, period.  And that's the bottom line here, especially when you have at least one other arm available that could be used before having to turn to a mop up guy.  But again, I believe that the closer code used (whether the box is checked or not) is taking precedence, and if so, then this should be better defined or explained to us.

OK, and just after I posted I saw the post added about closer definition, so I guess i was on the right track.  Hopefully they truly will address this.

Did you read the last post on Page One? It's admin's response from this morning.

The closer definition is actually what caused the issue, which I did not expect.

When that setting is not checked, the closer will only come in if:

A) It's a save situation, or
B) in a tie game.

They agree that that's dumb, and will fix it in the next upgrade.

I'm surprised that no one has noticed that their closers never come in with the lead in a non-save situation. I definitely didn't.

Posted by inkdskn on 7/21/2010 3:47:00 PM (view original):

7/21/2010 9:34 AM

Customer Support

We now see your point and why you're frustrated. The Use Closer in Save Situations only setting did not have a complete definition in the knowledge base so we've added one this morning. If the box is checked, the closer will only enter when he can earn a save. If it's not checked, he'll enter in both save situations and tie games. He won't enter when the team has the lead but it's not a save situation, which is what occurred here. Should he be able to based on the settings the user has provided? We think so, and we'll be making this change the next time we do an engine update. We agree with you that the user should be able to use him in such a manner. Thanks for the persistence.

NVM, bayne. Here is the quote, for people who skip that long-assed page.

ink...the "sim hates me" theorists woud predict some nice LLLLLL coming up for your team. Frustrating for sure. I would have interpreted it as you have. For some reason I interpreted the closer settings to be that they would only come in either in a save situation or a tie-game, or no one else left to pitch, which appears to be the case.

Most of the time I just set everyone to Set-Up A and let Sparky sort it out...which he appears to do anyway!

Posted by inkdskn on 7/21/2010 3:47:00 PM (view original):

7/21/2010 9:34 AM

Customer Support

We now see your point and why you're frustrated. The Use Closer in Save Situations only setting did not have a complete definition in the knowledge base so we've added one this morning. If the box is checked, the closer will only enter when he can earn a save. If it's not checked, he'll enter in both save situations and tie games. He won't enter when the team has the lead but it's not a save situation, which is what occurred here. Should he be able to based on the settings the user has provided? We think so, and we'll be making this change the next time we do an engine update. We agree with you that the user should be able to use him in such a manner. Thanks for the persistence.

That's good to know...I always thought if the" use closer in save situation only" was unchecked he would appear in a game even when losing. I usually set mine to inning available 9,with the box unchecked, assuming the closer would pitch in the 9th in a close game even if I was losing.

I have noticed that the only change made by unchecking the box is the closer can be entered in tie games in addition to save-only situations.  (It does help if a game goes into the 10th inning.)  Closers are not used when losing or ahead but no save situation unless there are no other pitchers available.  Usually I have a minimum of 3-4 setup pitchers, and often I change the pitchers' roles (switch closer and setup) for a few games during a season if the closer is being underused.

I tried what seamar_116 said one day when I had no computer access. Five relievers were checked at various pitch counts all at 100%. What happens? The same 3 relievers are brought in 2 of the 3 games (the first game starter went the distance), their fatigue was under 90%, and ended under 80%, while 2 perfectly healthy guys were ignored. I simply can't explain or understand that. If it happens again I'll just set my starters to pitch till they die.

Just happened to me in today's am game, it was tied going into the 9th inning Sparky brings in my mopup pitcher, he gives up 4 runs and I lose the game.  The Use Mopup Only When Losing box was checked and there were other pitchers avaliable.

all the more reason to not use mopups or closers...

I'm not disputing any of the settings, but let's say you were managing this game live...would you really have brought your closer in with a 6-run lead in the 8th?  I highly doubt it.  And from what Admin said, you still had a 3-run lead when your closer came in (albeit with baserunners, i'm assuming).  So your closer didn't get the job done either way.

Bottom line is, you may have a right to be mad about the settings, but I'm sure some people would be more mad if their closer had been burned in a two-inning appearance with a six-run lead and no save possible.

Quote post by Jtpsops on 7/22/2010 3:37:00 PM:I'm not disputing any of the settings, but let's say you were managing this game live...would you really have brought your closer in with a 6-run lead in the 8th?  I highly doubt it.


Yes, I would have the brought the closer in. That's the point.

In my case I had two closers ready to go Smoltz & Milacki, live or sim one should have gone in.  The very definition of a mopup is he goes in when the game is out of hand,  my game was tied.

In ink's case, the very definition of a closer is that he comes in late and in close games.   I guarantee at least 80% of ML managers would bring in their mopup guy over their closer with a 6 run lead in the 8th.