Hollands checks in with a HOF-worthy 11.0 Importance Score, so he will definitely get a vote from me but I could go either way on him being a lock. I haven't run the numbers on Sisler or Rucker yet but they certainly pass the eye test

Sisler, Rucker, Hollands

Sisler and Rucker obviously, no discussion needed there.

I really like Hollands and think his super-elite defense really makes him the KIND of player we should want to get in. He's basically Scott Rolen offensively and defensively, except if Rolen stole 639 bases! I'd support him as a lock.

But the guy I really think we're sleeping on is Markus Roth. Roth was a real CF, a good one, and he has an .870 OPS, 2500 hits, 470 homers, 320 steals. He was a BEAST. And by comparison, he'd

I looked at the seven real CF's who are in our HOF:

Rey Jung
Mike Stokes
Carlos Calles
Buddy Lowe
Alfredo Diaz
Pete Pryor
Edgardo Jacquez

Jung and Stokes are inner-inner circle HOF's. Roth has a higher OPS than every other player -- Calles is the all-time SB leader, so he's a special case -- but I would argue that Roth is easily better than Pryor and Diaz, and not far off of Jacquez and Lowe. He'd be a solid and extremely worthy Hall of Famer. I don't like going over 3 locks, and certainly not for a guy who isn't inner-circle, but I'm all for highlighting him and giving him a very strong recommendation.

Posted by pimpbotlove on 6/19/2024 10:02:00 PM (view original):
Sisler and Rucker obviously, no discussion needed there.

I really like Hollands and think his super-elite defense really makes him the KIND of player we should want to get in. He's basically Scott Rolen offensively and defensively, except if Rolen stole 639 bases! I'd support him as a lock.

But the guy I really think we're sleeping on is Markus Roth. Roth was a real CF, a good one, and he has an .870 OPS, 2500 hits, 470 homers, 320 steals. He was a BEAST. And by comparison, he'd

I looked at the seven real CF's who are in our HOF:

Rey Jung
Mike Stokes
Carlos Calles
Buddy Lowe
Alfredo Diaz
Pete Pryor
Edgardo Jacquez

Jung and Stokes are inner-inner circle HOF's. Roth has a higher OPS than every other player -- Calles is the all-time SB leader, so he's a special case -- but I would argue that Roth is easily better than Pryor and Diaz, and not far off of Jacquez and Lowe. He'd be a solid and extremely worthy Hall of Famer. I don't like going over 3 locks, and certainly not for a guy who isn't inner-circle, but I'm all for highlighting him and giving him a very strong recommendation.

To follow up on this post, I've compiled all of the names mentioned above and in our conversation so far into one master list for the sake of comparison. Here's what I have so far:

Bud Rucker 115 Estimated WAR (UNOFFICIAL LOCK THIS YEAR)
Rich Winn 100 Estimated WAR
Markus Roth 83 Estimated WAR
Phil Searle 77 Estimated WAR
Rey Jung 64 Estimated WAR (ELECTED TO HOF)
Carlos Calles 53 Estimated WAR (ELECTED TO HOF)
Julio Hollands 52 Estimated WAR
Marty Sisler- 50 Estimated WAR (UNOFFICIAL LOCK THIS YEAR)
Albert James 48 Estimated WAR
Brian Blair 35 Estimated WAR

Mike Stokes (HOF)-need data
Buddy Lowe (HOF)-need data
Alfredo Diaz (HOF)-need data
Pete Pryor (HOF)-need data
Edgardo Jacquez (HOF)-need data

Pimp, I'd say you can World Chat and post that Rucker and Sisler are locks, Hollands and Roth are "highly recommended". Consider sharing their respective Bruinsfan Estimated War scores. I'm personally going to add Roth to my vote in place of my previous fifth pick. Thanks, everybody. This was a very healthy discussion.

Yes, we missed Winn. If he doesn't make it this season, we can lock him next season.

My priorities (when I have some extra time during the regular season) are going to be getting Career Estimated WAR totals for every current HOF member and then doing some park adjusted totals for Blair and Sisler since there does seem to be a fair bit of chatter around those two

Some insights from my research about Career Estimated WAR for our HOF members as of Season 65's class:

• We have 95 total members of the HOF who average 83 Career Estimated WAR
• The three positions we have the fewest of are SS (just Kris Wanatabe), DH (Yeico Johnson and George Paul) and RF (5 total)
• The three positions we have the most of are SP (30 total), 1B (15 total) with 3B/LF tied for third with 9 total

Posted by mr_stickball on 6/22/2024 8:28:00 PM (view original):
Yes, we missed Winn. If he doesn't make it this season, we can lock him next season.

This is definitely the place to start this year. Winn is the only person on the ballot for whom I have data who exceeds the 83 Career Estimated WAR of the "average Stickball HOFer." I have also trade-chatted everyone who has posted in world chat that they already voted so we can get a sense of where people are leaning, and then if I need to collect data on any of those guys, I will.

I'm super curious to hear everyone's thoughts on this season's vote recommendations.

I just glanced last night (will look more indepth and get spreadsheet updated tonight) but Winn and i have brought up Pillette before, as the only 2 i would consider. And with him I am not 100% sold on either as locks.

Winn is the clear priority to me. Obvious lock.

We've honestly done such a good job at getting guys in in recent years that the list looks pretty bare; I don't think ANY pitchers merit inclusion, and most of the other position players are great but not must-haves.

I continue to love Phil Searle, but recognize his longevity issues.


Manny Gordon is about the closest I see to someone I'd really stump hard for. A guaranteed 30-30 guy for a VERY long time, 500/500 career, excellent LF defense, elite 1B defense and passable 2B defense, longevity, run production, .858 OPS which is basically right at the midpoint for guys who offer speed and D also. Seems like a HOF'er to me.

Enrique Gamboa is basically Gordon, except if he was purely a lousy outfielder. So, would only put him in the discussion well behind Gordon.

Royce Howell could hit, but he was a lousy defensive catcher and the meat of his offensive career was spent in the offensive heaven of Santa Fe, so BIG park bounce for him. Eh.

Stefen Calderone hit a ton of homers but basically did nothing else; not a ton of XBH, mid-range average and OBP, no speed, pure DH or lousy 1B career. I'd pass.

Dwayne Pilette played for one club, Dover, which is awesome, hit pretty well (.821 OPS) and had 330-SB speed and 400 HR power, and played a strong 2B for about half his career (a mediocre 3b and terribad CF for the rest, so...). But there's also no peak there, I think just one season with over a .900 OPS, not a lot of standout moments... Hall of Very, Very Good in my opinion.

...And I think that about does it for me!

As I mentioned this morning, I polled the guys who posted "voted" in the World Chat and by now they have all gotten back to me. The result of the poll are as follows:

• Winn = 4 votes
• Gordon & Searle = 2 votes each
• Park, Calderone, PIllette, Gamboa, Nova = 1 vote each

Other name mentioned by committee members above: Royce Howell. That list of names is where I'll start my exploration of Career Estimated WAR this season. These are the results of that investigation to date:

Rich Winn, 100 Estimated Career WAR
{Stickball Average HOFer = 83 Estimated Career WAR}
Dwayne Pillette, 81 Estimated Career WAR
Phil Searle, 77 Estimated Career WAR
Royce Howell, 74 Estimated Career WAR
Manny Gordon-54 Estimated Career WAR
Jeff Park-38 Estimated Career WAR
Stephen Calderone-38 Estimated Career WAR
Enrique Gamboa-NEED DATA
Ruben Nova-NEED DATA

I am fine with just Winn as a rec.

I agree that the list is more bare than in the past. Let's please quickly come to a conclusion. It sounds like Winn and Searle are our locks. Does anyone disagree?