Made It
Adrian Beltré: 366 votes, 95.1%
Todd Helton: 307 votes, 79.7%
Joe Mauer: 293 votes, 76.1%
Also Manager Jim Leyland

Remain on ballot
Billy Wagner: 284 votes, 73.8%
Gary Sheffield: 246 votes, 63.9%
Andruw Jones: 237 votes, 61.6%
Carlos Beltrán: 220 votes, 57.1%
Alex Rodriguez: 134 votes, 34.8%
Manny Ramirez: 125 votes, 32.5%
Chase Utley: 111 votes, 28.8%
Omar Vizquel: 68 votes, 17.7%
Bobby Abreu: 57 votes, 14.8%
Jimmy Rollins: 57 votes, 14.8%
Andy Pettitte: 52 votes, 13.5%
Mark Buehrle: 32 votes, 8.3%
Francisco Rodriguez: 30 votes, 7.8%
Torii Hunter: 28 votes, 7.3%
David Wright: 24 votes, 6.2%

Dropped off Future ballots
José Bautista: 6 votes, 1.6%
Victor Martinez: 6 votes, 1.6%
Bartolo Colon: 5 votes, 1.3%
Matt Holliday: 4 votes, 1%
Adrián González: 3 votes, 0.8%
Brandon Phillips: 1 vote, 0.3%
Jose Reyes: 0 votes, 0%
James Shields: 0 votes, 0%

I think eventually Utley should get in.

Utley had the second-best seven-year peak based on WAR of any player on this year’s Hall of Fame ballot behind only A-Rod.

And, if you consider WAR for his first 10 seasons as a starter, from 2005-2014, the only player in the sport during that decade with a higher WAR was Albert Pujols.

(h/t Jayson Stark of The Athletic for that data).

Was there a better second baseman in the sport during his era? No.

But he was a winner. Everywhere he went. He was a next-level ballplayer. He was the Phillies’ best-player during their reign atop the N.L. East. He hit five home runs in the 2009 World Series. You just watched Chase play and you knew he was the best in the business at his position.

Helton’s career road OPS of .855 is higher than the career road OPS of many Hall of Famers, including Dave Winfield, Eddie Murray, Tony Gwynn, Andre Dawson, Paul Molitor, Wade Boggs, Jim Rice, and Harold Baines.

Posted by Chickasaws on 2/13/2024 1:41:00 AM (view original):
Helton’s career road OPS of .855 is higher than the career road OPS of many Hall of Famers, including Dave Winfield, Eddie Murray, Tony Gwynn, Andre Dawson, Paul Molitor, Wade Boggs, Jim Rice, and Harold Baines.

That may be true but most of the guys you mentioned are 1980s guys and Heltons numbers were in the roid 90s-00s. I dont think a straight look at numbers is appropriate. Brady Anderson 52 hrs in the 1990s. Does anyone confuse him with 1977 George Foster?

Catchers seem to get a boost, not too surprised about joe. Tbh I’ve been completely over HOF voting, feel like they have tarnished its value over how they’ve handled steroid era to the fans at least. It was unfortunately part of the game and selectively punishing guys when beltre, papi, bagwell, etc have gotten in with rumors and accusations around their use while disallowing obvious guys like bonds, a-rod, etc. They might have been ******** but this isn’t the hall of fame of nice guys. Writers should have grown tf up, they’ve saved nothing by how they’ve handled voting in the last decade.

Even more so if they’re gonna play jury judge and executioner for roid rumors you’d think they might put more weight on defensive metrics but I’m pretty soft on the idea that vizquel will get in which is a shame just for the defense. Same goes for Andrew jones however more roid speculation likely comes into play here.

Would agree w/ most of that Dance. I think the sticking point for me on the roid things (doesnt change my mind) though is how the players themselves handled it.

• Bonds, McGwire, Palmeiro, Manny, Clemens have all denied, defied or tried to mislead vs. helping. They are a FOREVER NO to me.
• Sammy Sosa? No Habla Ingles.
• Aroid got caught TWICE and despite MLB hiring him and his crying press conferences, he is a NO.
• I cut Andy Pettite slack, he admitted it but was not a HoF to begin with. Bagwell somehow got in when obvious he was juiced. I would say the same for Pudge. Liked both of those guys but was surprised they got through the screens.
• Im a Cards fan, I watched Andruw Jones and to this day do not think he was materially better than Jim Edmonds who got almost no support for HoF.
• Unrelated to roids, I think Pete Rose should be in there. That being said, I would put him in post humously so he cannot profit off it. His crime was after his great career. If you are going to hold Pete accountable, lets not forget Willie Mays was banned for ballparks for a while due to his association....

There are always different eras and factors but you pick those who were the best at their positions during their era. Ozzie already made it as the defensive SS, I dont think you make room for Vizquel.

My opinion, for what it’s worth, is that if we are going to deny Bonds, who was arguably a HOFer before he started using, then all who are questionable should be kept out.

Also consider Roid users are penalized but guys from the 70s who used amphetamines are not penalized.

Maybe the Hall should only be based on game performance not character.

Put in Shoeless Joe first, then Bonds, etc

If we are gonna let those guys in, I’d rather induct the guys who still tried to win, like Bonds and A-Rod over the guys that likely threw games for money e.g. Rose and Shoeless Joe

Yea but have they actually shunned all the steroid users? I’d suggest not. There is no standard between who has gotten in and who has not other than public perception. Driven largely by the writers to start with. Rumors did not run into full blown investigations for guys loved by the media such as papi and pudge. MLB did a poor job policing steroids willingly or not, likely willingly imo. You were seeing random no names get nabbed once a formal policy was put into place I want to say in 2009ish, giving merit to estimates that 70%+ were on some sort of juice. It came down to potentially everyone is doing something and who got caught in the public’s perception. To this day across all sports athletes are finding ways to get away with enhancement. It’s a constant cat and mouse game and in the late 2000s the cat had caught up.

The game has changed over the eras and whether you hate the supposedly user or not if his numbers were of HOF quality for his era he should have some sort of place as his numbers do in the history of the game. Guys taking Dex pregame for decades and not a blink, was that fair to the guys in the generation before? Is it fair the guys today are seeing significantly better pitching than guys 100 years ago? We all understand the differences across eras within this game with normalization and the fact is that it is what it is for this era of baseball. It’s my strong belief that a vast majority were on something and some got caught while others did not, mainly in the court of public opinion. Testing was not up to par and guys can be taking things during off seasons seeing gains, come off it and have it “out of their system” in terms of testing but their bodies will see the positive effects for a number of additional months.

No one can give definite proof of who was on what and how prevalent it is and every single guy accused in a rumor will deny it to this day due to shame or fear of the hof writers. You cannot claim moral high ground on one guy getting in but not others. My hope is that one day the commish decides to include the major players who clearly were snubbed as their numbers, impact, and careers have had major impacts on the game of baseball and it’s history forever. I understand a lot of people not wanting to celebrate those players and if you want to induct and not include them in the ceremony of it that would be fine with me, but pretending that they just never existed is flat out wrong. Someone like Bonds has still had a major positive impact on the game of baseball as far as youth growth, economy of baseball and possibly even turning the negative of the PEDs into MLB attempting to crack down so future eras are cleaner (don’t believe for a minute baseball wasn’t complicit in the rise of this either). At this point it’s a part of baseball history for better or worst that deserves recognition whether the writers wanted to give it to them or not.