This originated in another thread, so I thought I'd consolidate it here.

List players that you find that are listed as being 100% at a position, but when you look at the defensive matchups, they don't have the same defense as they should.

For example, 94-95 John Stockton is 100% effective at both PG & SG.  He has a defense of 80.  If you look at the defensive matchups, his SG defense is 79 versus the expected 80.  So he's clearly not 100% at both.

Same with 89-90 Stockton.

Also, 80-81 George T. Johnson is listed as 100% C & PF & 100 defense, yet he has 99 defense at PF.

List any you find here & maybe we'll eventually get corrections.

The List
94-95 John Stockton
89-90 John Stockton
80-81 George T. Johnson
62-63 Oscar Robertson
84-85 Paul Pressey
80-81 Carlos Terry

62-63 oscar is 100 at three positions but defense is lower at sf.          

84-85 paul pressey is the same as oscar

80-81 carlos terry is 100 at three positions but defense is lower at pg

Thanks ash.

I'll take it a step further.  All defensive ratings are not in line with position effectiveness.  

For example.  14-15 Chris Paul is 96% effective at SG.  He's a 90 defender.  90 x .96 = 86.4.  Rounded down he should be an 86 defender at SG.  But he's not.  He's 83.  Which means he's really 92% effective.

09-10 Greg Oden is 97% effective at PF.  He's a 76 defender.  76 x .97 = 73.7.  Rounded up he should be a 74 defender at PF.  But he's a 71.  Which means he's really 93% effective.

Do this for every player at positions not 100%.  With rare exceptions, defense is always lower than it should be.  

Posted by kinoa1 on 7/5/2015 8:46:00 PM (view original):
I'll take it a step further.  All defensive ratings are not in line with position effectiveness.  

For example.  14-15 Chris Paul is 96% effective at SG.  He's a 90 defender.  90 x .96 = 86.4.  Rounded down he should be an 86 defender at SG.  But he's not.  He's 83.  Which means he's really 92% effective.

09-10 Greg Oden is 97% effective at PF.  He's a 76 defender.  76 x .97 = 73.7.  Rounded up he should be a 74 defender at PF.  But he's a 71.  Which means he's really 93% effective.

Do this for every player at positions not 100%.  With rare exceptions, defense is always lower than it should be.  

great input.  I'll let admins know to check this thread out. heh.

I'm sure they'll get right on it.  ;)

I went to submit the ticket & came across this nugget in the knowledge base:

 

#128	Coaching Options	Q.	How do defensive matchups work?
		A.	Defensive matchups allow you specify which positions each player on your team may defend. You can check the box next to each position that you want the player to potentially defend in a game. A player will always be eligible to defend their current offensive position by default. The settings grid shows each player's adjusted defensive rating at each position. This adjustment is based on the player's effectiveness at that position, but is not strictly effectiveness multiplied by defensive rating. The SimEngine will automatically optimize your team's defensive matchups based on the offensive players, the defensive ratings of your players, and the positions you allow each player to defend. Offensive players are evaluated based on shooting efficiency and number of touches. NOTE: You may also elect to turn off the matchups, in which case your players would just defend their current offensive position.

So... that makes no damn sense whatsoever.

This sim...

LOL.  Let me see if I can translate:

"There is a glitch in the code that gives incorrect defensive ratings.  Rather than fix the glitch, we decided to add this sentence in the knowledge base, which is much easier and takes less of our time.  Hopefully no one notices the glitch but if they do, we're covered, and if they complain, we'll handle it like everything else ... by doing nothing about it."

Does that sound about right?  

for sure.

Here's the response I received:

7/8/2015 9:00 PM	bkbillups
94-95 John Stockton is 100% effective at PG and sg, but his defense suffers at SG. If he's 100% effective shouldn't he have the same attributes as PG?
7/9/2015 10:01 AM	Customer Support
Stockton is technically 99.5% effective at SG, which gets rounded up to 100% for display purposes. Also, adjusted defensive rating isn't just effectiveness multiplied by defense. It penalizes more for playing at less effective positions than other aspects of the game. If we used a straight calculation of effectiveness and defense, Stockton would have a 48 defense rating while playing center. That would place him better than many true centers defensively, which doesn't make much sense. So the adjustment for defense is a steeper drop-off as effectiveness goes down at a position.

Well at least you got an answer.

One problem though.  By my calculations this makes Stockton 20% effective defensively at center ... and 60% effective at offensive, rebounding, and everything else.   Really?  

Do they seriously believe he would be 300% MORE effective getting a rebound off of Wilt or Moses than defending them?  

That's some seriously flawed logic.

Well then.  I guess nobody ever told the programmers that basketball was played on two ends.  If you're 100% effective at shooting guard, you're 100% effective there offensively & defensively.  If you're not able to defend the shooting guard position, then you shouldn't have that 100% at SG.  By the same token, if 60% of STockton at center is better than a lot of centers in the sim and that doesn't make sense, why the **** is he 60% effective at center?  Why not make him 5% effective?

As you said, kinoa, flawed logic.

One of the 100 D Olajuwons is 99 D at PF even though it says his position ranking in 100 at PF. not sure which year.

Someone I know in real life posted that there should be 2 separate position rankings. 1 for offense & 1 for defense. He used Rodman as an example & it makes perfect sense. It sounds like WIS actually does this.... But in a HIGHLY flawed- almost unintelligible- manner.

The explanations given to you guys make very little sense...

If you take the Stockton example, why should he be 100% effective at guarding SGs? He's not going to be as effective guarding MJ, Drexler, T-Mac, Kobe, etc as he is Mo Cheeks, Isiah Thomas, & CP3. Then again, he shouldn't be penalized if the team he is defending is running 2 smaller Gs, like a Cheeks & Thomas combo... Stockton would have a more difficult time guarding Magic at PG, then he would Hornacek at SG.... There are many different example you can use with many different players. The SIM engine is highly flawed, but there doesn't really seem to be a real solution. The idea is to mimic real life.. In real life, it doesn't matter if I Thomas is playing PG or SG, Stockton- or CP3 for that matter- are going to defend him with the same effectiveness. But in RL, Stockton & CP3 wouldn't be 100% effective Guarding Lebron, even if Lebron is the PG. Mo Cheeks is a 90 defender at SG. Durant is 99% effective at SG. If Cheeks were Guarding KD in RL, KD would destroy him... But in WIS, Cheeks on KD is a very nice option... I don't have a solution. Not sure if there is one..

As you said, you don't have a solution, and I agree, I'm not sure there is one.  The best you can do is be consistent.  They're not being consistent.