I've only been playing for about a year (and I've never played in an open league), but in a league I am in, one manager rested his stars during a playoff game (and lost that game by a billion), presumably to play those stars maximum minutes the rest of the playoffs (or at least series). What a classless move - obviously an allowable hack - but was wondering if some sort of safeguard could be built to protect from this type of manipulation.

beat him

Not playing him - not sure you got my point though.

That might be true and I hope so - I do think that throwing a game is a sort of insult to the person they are facing, it is a show of contempt or at least arrogance along the lines of an 'I think so little of your team that I can give away a game and still look past this entire series' kind of deal

but as for marshaling time/hoarding minutes? That's the chief plum for winning a division and getting a first-round bye - if one can achieve that benefit in some other small measure? good for them

now I don't like arrogance (not least of all because I can be quite arrogant myself and that is usually when Kharma will come and tap me on the shoulder) so if in their moment of arrogance they throw a game against a perceived inferior opponent and that opponent then beats them in the series? I drink their tears with pleasure and feel that they have gotten what they deserved

but to me, it is not a matter of ethics or anything that should be litigated or legislated

It's not about that at all. It's often done against superior opponents in an attempt to steal the series in addition to trying to secure the win against an equal or inferior opponent. I started doing it recently after years & years of fighting against it. I'm still not convinced it's the right play, but the way to handle it when playing against it is to a) not take it personally b) take advantage of a free win & c) learn who is likely to do it, what game they are likely to do it in (and why), and get some rest of your own during that game while securing said free victory.

I wouldn't say it is necessarily an intentional insult but the particular instance I was thinking about (which was committed by the same anonymous owner referred to in the OP I am only just now realizing) was a rest in a conference finals series where he was a) a lock and b) already enjoying the first-round bye buffer - in fact he did it in the semi-finals in that league too (and was a mortal lock in that series as well)

again I don't think it is a matter of ethics or anything, it's just gamesmanship but when you're doing it to bank minutes for a future series you are being in some measure arrogant regarding your current competition

Interesting because I feel the opposite. I think playing an opponent with a fatigued team is arrogant. It's basically saying "my 95% fatigued guys can handle your 100% guys." A tank is saying "If my guys aren't playing 115% recommended minutes and at 100% fatigue level, I can't beat you." That, to me, is a sign of respect.

Now I've been up 3-0 and tanked against what I think is an inferior opponent, so I guess that's a sign of arrogance ... against them. But it's offset by the fact that I'm doing it in anticipation of a difficult series against my next opponent. So its A) Tank a game against an inferior opponent down 3-0 to stay 100% against the next opponent. Or B) Sweep and hope the next series doesn't go 7 games because my guys will be spent. To me it's a no brainer.

Ultimately though, 100% of my tanks are calculated risks to keep my main guys at 100%, so contempt or arrogance plays no part.

That said, I do have a problem with owners who play 5 guys 48 minutes for 2 games, tank, then rinse and repeat. Especially the State Farm teams in open leagues, where the already HUGE glitch and manipulation of the high assists is now bolstered by the fact that these teams aren't affected by the possession penalty. So Giannis or Lebron can play 48 minutes and still go 19-20 with no turnovers. That's an unbeatable strategy in open leagues and while I wouldn't call it classless, I would say it's very unsportsmanlike.

Yeah, I feel it's more opposite than anything as well. As in, "I don't think I can beat you if I don't do this" is a sign of respect.

I've never tanked a game up 3-0; I'd rather just close it out and rest all my guys while other series are finishing. I did once when I was up 3-1 and ended up losing that series, so it's safe to say that I'll never make that mistake again.

I also tend to lose to the owners that are most notorious for doing this so ymmv

And yes, I hate it, too. Imagine an NBA team actually doing that in the real playoffs.

Posted by copernicus on 6/21/2021 5:13:00 PM (view original):
I wouldn't say it is necessarily an intentional insult but the particular instance I was thinking about (which was committed by the same anonymous owner referred to in the OP I am only just now realizing) was a rest in a conference finals series where he was a) a lock and b) already enjoying the first-round bye buffer - in fact he did it in the semi-finals in that league too (and was a mortal lock in that series as well)

again I don't think it is a matter of ethics or anything, it's just gamesmanship but when you're doing it to bank minutes for a future series you are being in some measure arrogant regarding your current competition

I didn't tank twice. I was legitimately beat in the semi's. I did it once ... in anticipation of playing you. Your team is damn good.

Posted by Kona1 on 6/21/2021 5:32:00 PM (view original):
That said, I do have a problem with owners who play 5 guys 48 minutes for 2 games, tank, then rinse and repeat. Especially the State Farm teams in open leagues, where the already HUGE glitch and manipulation of the high assists is now bolstered by the fact that these teams aren't affected by the possession penalty. So Giannis or Lebron can play 48 minutes and still go 19-20 with no turnovers. That's an unbeatable strategy in open leagues and while I wouldn't call it classless, I would say it's very unsportsmanlike.

State Farm should absolutely be THE priority fix. I know many people are on the Bill Russell 100 defense train, but State Farm should absolutely be priority #1 if they weren't rebuilding the whole thing from scratch, anyway.

the only reason I lean towards the Russell thing is that I feel like fixing Bill Russell's D rating would take 5 minutes while capping the as% boost might take some work under the hood

doesn't matter in either case - Scott is going to Scott

I'm a tanker, I admit it, and I feel righteous in doing so. Here's why. I've only played in about half a dozen open leagues (under another name), but that's enough to experience the dominance of the State Farm teams. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, is the great temptation, but it's one I've resisted so far. I think it makes for a better experience -- for everybody -- if there are a variety of teams. But I need at least a little hope that my (non-State Farm) team can prevail; nobody wants to be the Washington Generals. Strategic tanking is my source of hope. It's David versus Goliath in the form of 2 Stockton's, 2 Lebron's, and a Magic. You can't blame David for bending the rules when the rules seem bent to begin with. This argument, of course, wouldn't apply against non-State Farm playoff teams, but you don't meet many of those outside the first round! (Which is kind of the point)