In $80 mil open leagues, my teams always seem to be much more successful when I use 4 man rotations instead of 5 man rotations. It's confusing to me because I am very meticulous when I draft my pitchers, but the results don't lie.

Is there any particular reason for this phenomenon?

Might be in-game fatigue. Check out the IP/G of the pitcher and make sure that your pitch counts don't have a pitcher pitching past his IP/G. Given how often starters were used in less than 5 man rotations and how often starters were used, at least occasionally, in relief, a 5-man rotation severely limits your pool of eligible starters.

I find that even in progressives with the 250-350 IP starters of the 30s through the 60s, I often have to use 3-man rotations to not have them pitching fatigued.

Is that the extent of your research roadhouse? Come on, dude. Are these teams similar? Have you used the exact same pitching staff, only choosing different rotation styles with diff teams? Are the pitchers' ERAs what you would expect them to be? Are there any other variables other than W-L record?

I am in the same boat. Almost inevitably, if I decide a 5-man rotation is best for whatever theme I am in, it doesn't work, and 1 of the 5 guys ends up in the bullpen.

I think it's the balance of innings. If I run a 5-man I usually have at least 1000 innings in the rotation, so the bullpen isn't as deep. Maybe that's not your problem. I'm just sharing my experiences.

...a 5 man rotation can work if you're willing to use your 5 SP as relievers on a very regular basis...which i am...in open type leagues, i don't think they are a very cost effective way to allocate your staff tho...

Quote: Originally posted by JohnGPF on 6/29/2009...a 5 man rotation can work if you're willing to use your 5 SP as relievers on a very regular basis...which i am...in open type leagues, i don't think they are a very cost effective way to allocate your staff tho...

True, in an OL, you are only working with 8 or 9 drafted pitchers anyway, assuming you are only using 17 players plus your 8 AAA guys. Making 5/8 or 5/9 of them starters could be a problem.

Quote: Originally Posted By jfranco77 on 6/29/2009

Quote: Originally posted by JohnGPF on 6/29/2009 ...a 5 man rotation can work if you're willing to use your 5 SP as relievers on a very regular basis...which i am...in open type leagues, i don't think they are a very cost effective way to allocate your staff tho...

True, in an OL, you are only working with 8 or 9 drafted pitchers anyway, assuming you are only using 17 players plus your 8 AAA guys. Making 5/8 or 5/9 of them starters could be a problem

Hmm, I doubt it is the number of pitchers as much as it is the innings. My first team I had great sucess with 5 starters

It has as much to do with style as player choice. What are you most comfortable with? If you're not comfortable managing 5 starting pitchers (meaning not just player settings, but in how you allocate your player funds to draft them vs your relief pitchers, defining what your RP roles will be, etc.) you might have less success even if ostensibly they're good pitchers.

I've figured out that my favorite scenario (at least in 80m caps) is a 2½ man rotation. (Something like 1-2-3-1-2-1-2-3 etc.) I just like having big-inning pitchers that can get tons of starts, one 200 IP guy who can get every 5th start (and then be Long A in the playoffs) and then throw in a spot starter here or there. It just works for me.

What I've tried to do is draft 5 starters who are relatively equal in value so that there's little drop off from Starter 1 to starter 2, 3, and so on. What seems to happen is that at least one of my starters will crash and burn while the other guys do basically what I expected.

I usually shoot for 900-1100 IP from my starters. If I want a 5 man staff, I look for 190-220 IPs per guy.

In other words, if I want my starters to say average 1.27 WHIP#, 5.75 K/9#, 3.3 BB/9#, and 0.7 HR/9, I'll draft 5 starters to hit those marks. But what seems to happen is that at least one of these guys will completely tank. The tanker could be a y or a righty.

Inevitably, I'll put the tanker into the pen as my Long A guy. So instead of 1000 or so innings from my rotation, now I'm down to 800. I'll keep the pitch count the same for my 4 starters as I did for my original 5. Whenever I've had to do that, my team immediately seems to play much better.

My most recent team where I did this, my guys started 4-12. After the switch from a 5 man rotation to a 4 man rotation, they have gone 14-5. I know that that isn't a big sample size, but I swear, that phenomenon has taken place for me before.

I'm sorry that I don't have more specific data for you guys to chew on. I guess what I'm asking is that is there some kind of a "glitch" in the SIM where it favors shorter rotations.

Maybe the problem is that you're drafting guys with 3.3 BB/9# and 0.7 HR/9? Also, why not draft 3 better starters and 2 inferior guys? That way if you make the playoffs you can shorten it to a 3 man staff and actually improve the team; you're not going to need all 5 at that point anyway, so why waste money on guys that can't help you when it counts.

Quote: Originally Posted By dahsdebater on 6/30/2009Maybe the problem is that you're drafting guys with 3.3 BB/9# and 0.7 HR/9? Also, why not draft 3 better starters and 2 inferior guys? That way if you make the playoffs you can shorten it to a 3 man staff and actually improve the team; you're not going to need all 5 at that point anyway, so why waste money on guys that can't help you when it counts

Those stats were just an example.

The team that I cited earlier, the guy who I placed in the bullpen is actually my best $/IP pitcher. I moved him because he only had 160 IPs or so, not because he was tanking.

I made him my Setup A guy.

Just FYI. Sorry for any confusion.

The other teams where I made the switch, I changed the tanking guy to my Long A or B guy.

I'm sure 5-man rotations can work. My TOC win came with a HR team with a 5-man rotation. People consistently seem to doubt that either that offense or that pitching staff can win. Obviously winning the TOC means I got lucky, but the team had to be solid, too.

You seem like a very nice guy, but your problem solving skills are.......

Theres about 1.7million variables in this game (I counted), so saying your 4-15 and then 15-4, could be accounted for by any of those 1.7million reasons. You need to isolate the problem. All teams go through rough stretches. If my 4-man rotation team started 4-15, then I changed it to a 5-man rotation, unless I drafted the worst team ever...I'm going to better with the 5-man, not because of the rotation switch, but just because of logic and odds.

You are right in saying that your example is horribly small sample size. Please post the OBP of your team during the losing streak and during the winning streak. Do the same for the pitchers (ERA) teamwise as well as for the pitcher in question. Go back and look at your other teams if still possible and do the same. Find what doesn't look normal. If its a specific player's ERA in the rotation, then look within that players stats to isolate the problem (still lots of variables). What were the opponents OAV/OBP/SLG against him in the different roles? ERA? If those numbers were significantly different in the two roles, then why? Did you pitch him past his alloted pitches per game?

Booger makes a valid point. However, I really don't have the patience or wherewithal to try and isolate why my team started winning like that.

I guess to best way for me to put it is to quote Crash Davis from the movie Bull Durham: "If you're winning because you're getting laid or because you're not getting laid, then you are!"

In my case, if I think that I'm winning more often because I went from a 5 man rotation to a 4 man rotation, then I am!