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Quote: Originally Posted By hurley711 on 5/29/2008

Quote: Originally Posted By usmoo_879 on 5/29/2008
Yeah, I don't quit get what's so difficult to understand.

The O-ratings only exist so that the D settings can function. The O-ratings have no function for determining offensive results - beyond the D settings selected by your opponent and that effect on your offense.

You have to be kidding right? What's so difficult to understand about a certain player being able to be shut down because of an off label that limits his off ability??? Big O listed as Per, so a perimeter biased def in this SIM WILL HELP TO SHUT HIM DOWN! Big O would adjust to this def and post his man up, or drive to the hole ag a perimeter D. Karl Malone is listed as a paint player so a -1 -2 or -3 will help to shut him down in this SIM. Well guess what Malone was a REALLY GOOD midrange shooter, he knocked down 12-15 ft jumpers with ease. So if they packed the paint ag him he would shoot from the outside, but in this SIM noooo he will be limited by a riduculus off range label and a def setting ag him which IRL he would adjust to. WHATS SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND HERE???

A team consists of 12 players, not just 1. If you are playing against a team with Oscar and the 500 lb Gorilla alongside some role players, what are you going to do?

Will you:

a) Play +3 D so Wilt scores 70 and Oscar goes for 20

b) Play -3 D so Oscar goes for 50 and Wilt goes for 40

c) Play 0 D so they both get their average

Point is, there are multiple possibilities because teams are not comprised of only 1 player. While 1 player may be shut down, the rest may score above their averages because you tried to shut that 1 down.

Sly- what if I want to build my team with 4 "Perimeter" labelled players who all have the ability to shot midrange and drive to the hole. Im talking OScar, Stockton , Barkley etc etc but my opp sets a +2 or +3 ?? Oscar BArkley and Stockton could all shoot midrange and drive to the cup but guess what in this SIM they would prol be shutdown which IRL isnt the case at all. No crap its 12 players, but lets be honest most owners run a strong starting 5, and guess what if I want a team consisting of the above mentioned players or any players who are mislabelled than I will be affected by O-range labels that shouldnt exist

PG- Stockton

SG-Oscar

SF-LeBron

PF-BArkley

All listed as perimeter and ALL far from JUST perimeter players. So if I want to run this squad with a center of my choice I will be limited by a +3 def and you honestly think this is #1 fair and #2 what would happen IRL, isnt that what this is all about what would happen IRL??These above players should not be limited by labels and I should be able to draft a team that I want WO having that team limited by labels. How hard is this to understand? Labels take a decent amount of the fun out of this game.

And another thing I am sick of hearing about is that the labels require you to draft a "balanced" team. Guess what some of the greatest to ever play tis game had "Balanced" games, they took what the defense gave them. Why is it so hard to understand that by labelling superstars to 1 off postion is ridiculus. I SHOULD NOT have to draft around o-range labels that are incorrect/limiting in the first place. K Malone should not be restricted to a -2 because IRL he would shoot a jumper. I could list multiple players who can be restricted by a def setting in this SIM when IRL they would work around that def setting and score another way. If I wanted to run the above mentioned Stockton/Oscar/LeBron/Barkley lineup because I love those players I COULDN'T because their o-range labels would have them shutdown with a +2 or +3 and I dont care who the center is. I should be able to draft whoever I want and not have to draft around an o-range label.

Quote: Originally Posted By hurley711 on 5/29/2008
PG- Stockton

SG-Oscar

SF-LeBron

PF-BArkley

All listed as perimeter and ALL far from JUST perimeter players. So if I want to run this squad with a center of my choice I will be limited by a +3 def and you honestly think this is #1 fair and #2 what would happen IRL, isnt that what this is all about what would happen IRL??These above players should not be limited by labels and I should be able to draft a team that I want WO having that team limited by labels. How hard is this to understand? Labels take a decent amount of the fun out of this game.

Hurley-I completely understand your argument and your (and others') frustrations.

But having the option for an adjustable D setting is also realistic IRL. If the O designations were removed, the D settings would also need to be removed wouldn't they? Which would eliminate an option that is intended to give us coaches more control over how we coach our team.

Personally I don't think it has taken the fun out of the game. It just means I have to be more strategic when putting my team together, which for me, is a lot of the fun.

Oh and hurley, just for fun-I would never put a team together with the players you listed above

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Quote: Originally Posted By slymonium on 5/29/2008

Quote: Originally Posted By hurley711 on 5/29/2008

PG- Stockton

SG-Oscar

SF-LeBron

PF-BArkley

All listed as perimeter and ALL far from JUST perimeter players. So if I want to run this squad with a center of my choice I will be limited by a +3 def and you honestly think this is #1 fair and #2 what would happen IRL, isnt that what this is all about what would happen IRL??These above players should not be limited by labels and I should be able to draft a team that I want WO having that team limited by labels. How hard is this to understand? Labels take a decent amount of the fun out of this game.

Hurley-I completely understand your argument and your (and others') frustrations.

But having the option for an adjustable D setting is also realistic IRL. If the O designations were removed, the D settings would also need to be removed wouldn't they? Which would eliminate an option that is intended to give us coaches more control over how we coach our team.

Personally I don't think it has taken the fun out of the game. It just means I have to be more strategic when putting my team together, which for me, is a lot of the fun.

Oh and hurley, just for fun-I would never put a team together with the players you listed above

Neither would I but somebody might love all of those players and want to have fun with this SIM and go out and have a 15-67 season and never play again because of an unrealistic def setting. I get that you like having a chance to implement a def setting, well that def setting would be adjusted to IN GAME by the opposing team which is not allowed in this current version. Hence the def setting IS NOT FAIR, BTW not mad at you mad at WIS.

as far as I can tell there's nothing terribly wrong with the idea of defensive range settings - although it would be nice if there were offensive settings to counter them assuming you draft a team that has the capacity to execute the counter strategy (and assuming penalties ala the "Bo Outlaw" penalties to make you pay if you dont) - right now it's the current offensive range classifications that undermine the entire system

so many midrange greats denigrated to Reggie Miller territory - the glaring paint monsters relegated to midrange - it hurts the sense of realism that I thought was the goal of this game

see, the guy Hurley is talking about is me (not literally, but I'm an example of it)... I want to run a Barkley post-up/isolation team with a bunch of perimeter shooters similar to what the Phoenix Suns did from '92 to '96. (Barkley is my all-time favorite player of any sport)

I simply can't do that and expect to compete.

So instead, I'm forced to unrealistically have to draft two big men who can be threats in the paint just to balance Barkley, leaving me with little money to have REAL perimeter threats.

Monkee's point is well put. So is Hurley's. By putting in these ridiculous restrictions (say what you want, but they are restrictions - extremely inaccurate ones), you're taking a lot of the "what if" out of WIS.

Paul and Scott,

I don't know how much more plainly I can put this for you, but you keep skirting it because I'm figuring your numbers are horribly unimpressive, so we'll try this for the third time...

How many of those 583 users have current teams in the NEW SIM?

and

Which users got a survey...those that played in the last year? That's current....

The survey went to anyone who played in the last 6 months.

There's some confusion about what's being discussed in some posts. The explanations earlier were because some people didn't fully understand the whole offensive range/defensive positioning system. So I explained simply how it works.

With that said, I understand the argument about how some players are labeled and it's certainly valid. We're discussing some ways to improve the system.

With that said, the defensive positioning as it is now is not likely to shut down any player. Will it reduce their effectiveness? Yes. But that effect is not strong enough to single-handedly shut a good player down. If you can get away with playing a +3 or -3, then that can be significant (although not dominating), but it makes you very vulnerable to a balanced offensive team.

Guys please stop!! We spend 90% of our time reading flame forum posts that help us do our jobs or building money sucking gimmicks like dynasties. Its not our fault that we can only add 2 or 3 new features a year. Even though our core users hate them we have to defend them with our lives. Its the FOX motto.

And as far as surveys go, these numbers are very important. 75% are filled out by first timers but we still got a 30% approval rating!! Thats good, right? I'm just glad we're the only game in town so we can keep our arrogant attitudes and have suckers like keep funding our retirement. BTW you're all losers for wasting time on the internet - Seble and friends

Oh wait, I probably don't know what I'm talking about. I only won the tournament of champions league by a considerable margin. Yet, my owner ranking bounces in and out of the top 25 depending on the price of gas, wind direction, # of Meg Ryan lip surgeries, bad calls in NBA playoffs and darts throws used to come up with the current offensive designations. Why should anyone complain? Stick your head in the sand and be happy your paying for such a perfect application.