New Feature: Defensive Positioning Topic

badja
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Well, here's an example. My team's outtie. Next game I gave up 57% from the field. Seems a little off. I believe I had it set to -1 for this game.

2008 outtie

PLAYER MIN FGM/FGA 3PM/3PA FTM/FTA OREB REB AST BLK STL TO PF TP
68-69 Mel Daniels* 40 8/20 0/0 2/3 7 12 2 0 0 3 3 18
96-97 John Stockton* 38 6/12 1/3 4/6 2 3 4 0 2 3 1 17
96-97 A.C. Green 29 5/10 0/0 3/3 6 9 1 2 1 0 3 13
05-06 Marcus Camby* 26 3/10 0/0 0/0 1 7 2 2 0 1 3 6
04-05 Richard Jefferson 21 4/10 1/2 0/0 0 4 6 0 3 3 3 9
05-06 Peja Stojakovic* 19 5/15 1/5 1/1 1 3 2 0 0 0 3 12
90-91 Lester Conner* 18 0/2 0/0 3/4 2 4 3 0 2 0 1 3
01-02 Lucious Harris 15 2/5 1/2 0/0 3 5 0 0 1 1 1 5
98-99 Dell Curry 15 3/5 1/1 5/5 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 12
00-01 Toni Kukoc 9 0/3 0/2 0/0 0 3 2 0 0 0 0 0
98-99 B.j. Armstrong 6 0/0 0/0 0/0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
95-96 Chris Whitney 4 0/3 0/0 0/0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
TOTALS 36/95 5/15 18/22 22 52 24 4 9 11 19 95
37.9% 33.3% 81.8%
2008 I Bleed Green

PLAYER MIN FGM/FGA 3PM/3PA FTM/FTA OREB REB AST BLK STL TO PF TP
65-66 Jerry Lucas* 44 9/15 0/1 4/8 1 16 1 0 1 2 4 22
81-82 Larry Bird* 43 9/14 0/0 10/10 0 10 2 1 2 3 1 28
87-88 Kevin Duckworth* 38 5/11 0/0 0/2 2 8 1 1 0 2 4 10
87-88 Mark Price* 38 4/9 0/1 1/1 0 0 10 0 2 3 2 9
06-07 Allen Iverson* 34 7/10 0/0 1/3 0 1 7 0 1 3 3 15
74-75 Clem Haskins 12 2/4 0/0 1/1 0 1 3 0 1 0 3 5
01-02 Sam Mitchell 10 1/3 1/2 0/0 0 1 1 0 0 2 1 3
87-88 Artis Gilmore 8 1/1 0/0 1/1 0 2 1 0 0 0 1 3
80-81 Mike Gale 6 3/3 0/0 0/0 0 0 0 0 1 1 2 6
95-96 Pete Chilcutt 4 0/0 0/0 0/0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
74-75 Len Kosmalski 3 0/0 0/0 0/0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
TOTALS 41/70 1/4 18/26 3 41 26 2 8 16 21 101
58.6% 25.0% 69.2%


outtie defense-

68-69 Mel Daniels C $8,327,697 Pnt 79
96-97 John Stockton PG $7,963,816 Per 92
96-97 A.C. Green PF $5,553,571 Pnt 96
05-06 Marcus Camby C $5,073,828 Pnt 99
01-02 Lucious Harris SG $2,872,206 Per 53
05-06 Peja Stojakovic SF $2,828,610 Per 52
98-99 Dell Curry SG $2,530,453 Per 54
04-05 Richard Jefferson SF $2,410,967 Mid 51
90-91 Lester Conner PG $1,791,104 Mid 71
00-01 Toni Kukoc SG $1,159,099 Per 44
98-99 B.j. Armstrong PG $858,826 Per 61
95-96 Chris Whitney PG $431,025 Per 64


bleed green defense-
65-66 Jerry Lucas PF $9,889,736 Mid 86
81-82 Larry Bird SF $8,721,132 Mid 97
87-88 Mark Price PG $5,504,850 Per 35
06-07 Allen Iverson SG $5,484,152 Pnt 41
87-88 Kevin Duckworth C $4,486,761 Pnt 18
80-81 Mike Gale PG $2,317,322 Mid 96
87-88 Artis Gilmore C $1,758,499 Pnt 86
95-96 Pete Chilcutt PF $968,304 Per 37
74-75 Clem Haskins SG $953,503 Mid 38
01-02 Sam Mitchell SF $884,114 Mid 18
88-89 Mark Iavaroni PF $532,974 Pnt 91
74-75 Len Kosmalski C $463,373 Mid 27
3/27/2008 7:02 PM
dj.inc.
Posts: 38 (0)
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185
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If i set a plus 2, 0r 3....to defend the guards....will my big men leave their man, and start wandering the perimeter?
3/29/2008 3:31 PM
tianyi7886
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I'm just wondering, how do you specialize against midrange shots. Will a +2 or +3 perimeter defense still get some bonus against mid range shots?
4/2/2008 5:38 PM
bball_jones
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From what i've seen so far the new D effect is way too drastic.
Ok it's only after 14 games but here's what's happening with my "slightly" unbalanced team...
My perimeter 3 pts shooting is down at 28% for a real life avg of 38%.
Though my leading scorer is midrange, I have no real offensive threat in the paint and two perimeter players as next offensive threats so my opponents are playing me +1, +2 in about half the games. But still my shooting % is way bellow what it should be, 5% fg to 10% 3pts...
In real life most "perimeter" shooters are being pressed but they still get the numbers we know, but it seems that now in WIS perimeter is pretty much neutralized without having to give much for it.
So from now on it seems it's going to be very boring in the draft center,
something like paint-paint-mid-per-per or something very close to that or pay the consequences.
I use to really enjoy the drafting game but now it's boring and giving me a headache. No much room for creativity.
Too bad, i was really enjoying this game so far.
Hope the staff can see whats going on and make some adjustment.
4/3/2008 8:05 PM
tianyi7886
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I like the new changes. Alot of championship team in OL feature some form of huge defensive PF/C and a backcourt offense of heavy 3pt shooting. In a couple of my leagues, you would see 2 bill russell at pf and C and scoring primarily from the backcourt. The new defensive shift would penalize these kinds of teams because you can go into a perimeter shift +3.

As for "perimeter" players getting pressed in RL, I don't think that's true. If you do press too close against a sf, sg, or pg, they will just drive past you and burn you. If you watch nba games, you will see there is usually at least 3ft distance between the ball handler and the defender near the 3pt line.

Pure jumpshooters like michael redd and ray allen are also not pressed bc they consistently move through screens to find open/semi open looks.
4/4/2008 3:57 PM
tianyi7886
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Also, I think you give out a fair amount doing a perimeter shift. You can prevent +3 shift by drafting an inside scorer, and there are quite a few good ones at that. Also, +3 shift reduces the defenders defensive rebound (correct me if i'm wrong), so if you drafted high off reb centers, you also negate the lower fg%.
4/4/2008 3:59 PM
bball_jones
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Quote: Originally Posted By tianyi7886 on 4/04/2008
I like the new changes. Alot of championship team in OL feature some form of huge defensive PF/C and a backcourt offense of heavy 3pt shooting. In a couple of my leagues, you would see 2 bill russell at pf and C and scoring primarily from the backcourt. The new defensive shift would penalize these kinds of teams because you can go into a perimeter shift +3.

As for "perimeter" players getting pressed in RL, I don't think that's true. If you do press too close against a sf, sg, or pg, they will just drive past you and burn you. If you watch nba games, you will see there is usually at least 3ft distance between the ball handler and the defender near the 3pt line.

Pure jumpshooters like michael redd and ray allen are also not pressed bc they consistently move through screens to find open/semi open looks.



Well, with the new WIS D you can easily handle any "pure" jumpshooters by setting at +1 or +2. What i was saying is that, during the course of a season a shooter will sometimes get pressured and sometimes not but in the end his stats are what we draft. Now what we draft in here will be considerably tweaked by these + & - D settings.

My point is that with the new D being so efficient it gives us no other option than to draft symetrical teams, which some will like n some won't, I just think the drafting process is now very limited and not as much fun. Also some players have very questionable range ratings based mostly on a stat-formula rather than actual game knowledge so that is taking away from realism.

Example: 06-07 Earl Boykins, played for two teams, his range is perimeter for both but for his full season he's rated paint! Perimeter + perimeter = paint!? A 5"5 PG playing the paint!! That is an obvious example illustrating the stat-formula is flawed.

Having said that it won't be any harder just drafting a team that fits perfectly within the new D options. Symetry/balance being the key to counter any + or -. The rest of the game hasn't changed.
4/4/2008 4:21 PM
tianyi7886
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Personally, the defensive shift aren't that effective. I have done +3 shift vs a team that starts 2 russels, glen rice, dennis scott, and dana barros. I faced this team 2x already and the backcourt players have shot a combined 55% from the field against me. My backcourt defense is fairly strong btw, starting billups (89), hinrich (90), and elgin baylor (80).
4/7/2008 12:08 AM
malone9975
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Quote: Originally Posted By tianyi7886 on 4/04/2008I like the new changes. Alot of championship team in OL feature some form of huge defensive PF/C and a backcourt offense of heavy 3pt shooting. In a couple of my leagues, you would see 2 bill russell at pf and C and scoring primarily from the backcourt. The new defensive shift would penalize these kinds of teams because you can go into a perimeter shift +3.

As for "perimeter" players getting pressed in RL, I don't think that's true. If you do press too close against a sf, sg, or pg, they will just drive past you and burn you. If you watch nba games, you will see there is usually at least 3ft distance between the ball handler and the defender near the 3pt line.

Pure jumpshooters like michael redd and ray allen are also not pressed bc they consistently move through screens to find open/semi open looks.
Tell me where the metric for this is found in the sim please.
4/7/2008 12:21 AM
tianyi7886
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I'm talking about RL malone. It's a response to bball's post saying RL players are pressed consistently in the perimeter so they should not be penalized as much for the perimeter shift.
4/7/2008 2:40 PM
wontaek
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If the defensive position worked as it promises, I should play -3 in order to help my Triple-Double Oscar to average triple-souble in simleague. Yet, in Ultimate Progressive League Season IX, crackatoeha's J. S. Hawks are consistently playing -3 but is having problems with rebounding, being a team that gives up 3rd most offensive rebounds in the league. Although this may partly be due to unique player composition of UPL, I am having trouble finding evidence of defensive positioning significatly affecting the outcome. Is it because the difference between each setting is less than 10%, specific team related variables are too large, or that there is limits to situations defensive positioning will affect the outcome of a possession in the game? More importantly, for me, should I go with -3 to help Oscar get the rebounds needed for the triple double, or would that lead to reduction of his assists due to decrease of steals and/or fast break opportunities coming from opponent missing from a shot from perimeter?
4/21/2008 8:35 AM
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