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Quote: Originally Posted By bklynborn on 1/07/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By bheid408 on 1/07/2010
Had it not been for Maddux the Braves wouldn't have even gotten to the WS in '95.

Yep....alllllll Maddux. Amazing, the buffoonery around here when you disprove/dispute someone....

Trentonjoe wanted proof that Blyleven was better than Glavine so I gave him 8 of 10 reasons why. If that isn't enough too bad! Sure I threw that last bit about Maddux in there for someone to chew on. I know Glavine was a stud in his prime. I remember watching many games when he was pitching and the ump would give him the call on pitches 6-8 inches off the plate. Maybe if he would've had to throw it over the plate to get a strike he wouldn't have won sooooooo many games!

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Quote: Originally Posted By bheid408 on 1/07/2010
WHIP: 1.314 - 1.198
.

Is there a site that gives a career WHIP+ stat? I would be interested to see how Glavine and Blyleven compare to their contemporaries.

As far as peers/contemporaries voting for awards/all-star appearances, it is more a proxy for "peak/very good" years than anything. In most cases, it works. In this case, I think the voting was wrong, so we should look at the numbers and see that he SHOULD have been an all-star/cy young candidate many times. Just like Steve Nash is not an all-time great because he won two MVP awards as about the 10th-15th best player in the league.

Quote: Originally Posted By eastvanmungo on 1/07/2010Say what you will about the Baseball HOF... it's still waaaay more exclusive than the WIS HOF.

I am a very good example of the "less than exclusive" WIS HOF.

Quote: Originally Posted By bheid408 on 1/07/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By bklynborn on 1/07/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By bheid408 on 1/07/2010
Had it not been for Maddux the Braves wouldn't have even gotten to the WS in '95.

Yep....alllllll Maddux. Amazing, the buffoonery around here when you disprove/dispute someone....

Trentonjoe wanted proof that Blyleven was better than Glavine so I gave him 8 of 10 reasons why. If that isn't enough too bad! Sure I threw that last bit about Maddux in there for someone to chew on. I know Glavine was a stud in his prime. I remember watching many games when he was pitching and the ump would give him the call on pitches 6-8 inches off the plate. Maybe if he would've had to throw it over the plate to get a strike he wouldn't have won sooooooo many games!

Well, as an avid Brave fan, I chewed.

There's that buffoonery, again. That is such a ridiculous statement, I don't know where to begin. You are actually faulting Glavine(and Co.) for getting calls??

Quote: Originally Posted By seamar_116 on 1/07/2010
The argument that bugs me is, "He's not a first ballot HOFer" How the heck does that work? How does future balloting make a guy more (or less) HOF worthy?

And its equally amazing that there has never been a unanimous 100% first ballot selection. As ridiculous are votes for Segui, how does anyone justify not voting for Aaron, or Mays, or Ted Williams? ( I know why they didn't, but there is no rational way to justify it).

And I'll bring up Edgar Martinez. Everyone with his offensive stats (300/400/500 2200 H, 1200 BB, R, RBI, 300HR, 500 2B) is in the HOF. His OPS 150+ 8 times. The "he was just a DH" argument is weak. He played over 500 games at 3B and he wasn't awful. But the Ms got better gloves to play 1B-3B, so they had the luxury of letting him DH. Can anyone cite a player that had HOF offensive numbers but was kept out of the HOF because their defense was bad? If there are any guys in the HOF who were poor defensive players then one could state that Edgar actually added value to his team by being a DH instead of playing in the field.

If a DH can't make it, then no reliever should ever make it either. Sorry Mariano, no HOF for you. If you were HOF good you would have been a starter.

A lot of voters believe only the most elite players should get in on the first vote. I think the origins of that go back to the very earlies days of the hall when it was a truely elite institution.

The HoF line as far as offensive talent varies by position and there hasn't been a primarly DH player in the hall yet, so it is tough to judge Martinez.

Well, as an avid Brave fan, I chewed.

There's that buffoonery, again. That is such a ridiculous statement, I don't know where to begin. You are actually faulting Glavine(and Co.) for getting calls??

So you admit that he got them then. Good!

I'll bet ya that the clown who voted for Segui is the same that didn't vote for Rickey Henderson on the argument that no player should ever be unanimous...

I don't know how these guys get their right to vote but somebody should definitely check on them and do some type of evaluation if they are worthy to keep the privilege or not.

Todd Zeile and Shane Reynolds both got more votes than they deserved.

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