Most under-achieving hitter in sim. Topic

elbirdo
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Quote: Originally Posted By winnetka1 on 2/08/2010I'd rather be a hammer than a nail.
Yes I would.
If I only could,
I surely would.
2/8/2010 11:28 PM
crazystengel
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2/9/2010 12:00 AM
crazystengel
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By the way, this was a theme league, and the reason Bonds was used so often is that all the players were from 1978 to the present. So you would expect a player who costs 2 or 3 X more than most of the other best players to be at least somewhat dominant.

And not to be out-slugged by 1979 Sixto Lezcano (5.5M)!
2/9/2010 12:09 AM
boogerlips
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If you do a plate appearance based slugging percentage, I'm sure he was outslugged by dozens of players from that league.
2/9/2010 7:55 AM
elbirdo
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Quote: Originally Posted By crazystengel on 2/09/2010

First, I use McGraw a lot (certainly my most drafted hitter), and I've never seen him with an OBP under .400, and very often he's over .500 (I usually play in 80-100M leagues). I currently have him in a 100M league in the Astrodome, and his OBP is .499.

Second, here are the OBP and SLG from that league with the two Bonds:

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6237/bondse.jpg

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/2645/bonds2.jpg

The Bonds I was referring to in this thread is '04 (the one that costs 16.44M, more per PA than any other full-time player in the SIM). You'll notice that while he did come in 2nd in OBP, he was by far the most expensive player in the league. And he also came in 22nd in slugging. 2000 Vlad, 2000 Hildado and 1997 Tino Martinez finished ahead of him (all about 10M cheaper, and all of course with much lower RL SLG than '04 Bonds .812.)

Bonds certainly had a great season. My point is, he did not have a 16.44M season. Can we agree on that? Or do you think I got my money's worth?



I suggest you google wOPA and wRAA for an explanation of what these stats are and what they measure. Your McGraw currently has an OBP of .501 but his wOPA is .419.

OBP and SLG are inherently flawed - OBP treats a walk and any kind of hit exactly the same. SLG treats a HR as equal to 4 singles or 2 doubles. wOPA attempts to weight the relative values of BB, 1B, 2B, 3B, HR, HBP, etc and can be used to very accurately determine how many runs a player conributes to his team.

Your 04 Bonds and 05 Winn had virtually the same OPS, but your 04 Bonds will provide you 1 run more than Winn for every 8 games your team plays.

Is your 04 Bonds worth the money you paid for him? Good question. The relationship between cost and productivity is not linear. As a rule of thumb, I would try to spread my offensive budget evenly over my starting lineup. Two $9 million full time players will generally be more productive than a $16 million fulltime player and a $2 million fulltime player. Given the constraints of your league's theme, perhaps you could have spent the money more wisely elsewhere.

All that being said, your 04 Bonds was one of the most productive players in the entire league. He did not sink your team - as you accused him of doing.
2/9/2010 8:12 AM
crazystengel
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Thanks for the info, and I'll look up those terms on Google.

Again, the gist of my complaint with 04 Bonds is that, while his stats were obviously good, he didn't provide me with 16.44M worth of value. I can see from his stats that he did have a better overall season than Winn, but that wasn't my point. My point is that Winn was "worth the money" (exceeded his RL stats in many respects) while Bonds was not, at least to my eye (fell short of his RL OBP, SLG, HRs, etc., while many other players in that league came close or exceeded their RL stats). If I draft two players from the same (or nearly the same -- 1 season apart) season, and one player hits 62% as many HRs as he did in RL and the other hits nearly twice as many HRs as he did in RL, and one's SLG is off by .262 and the other's is over by .046 ... well, you get the picture. If Bonds' SIM stats compared to his RL stats the way Winn's did, my team would have won a lot more than 74 games. And that's why I'm saying he sunk my team.

In the theme I was in, I had to draft players from the 2003-05 Giants, with one clone allowed. There was no salary cap as such (most teams came in at around 100-110M). Maybe I could have drafted better, but to not take 2 Bonds would have been out of the question.
2/9/2010 9:01 AM
aaronelrod
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its kinda hard to get 16 mil out of a guy. my rule of thumb would be to not put all your eggs in one basket
2/9/2010 12:27 PM
mpitt76
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the walks happen earlier in the sim tree so high walk batters will walk a ton, and the hitting suffers...

Andy Van Slyke
Will Clark
2/9/2010 1:00 PM
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