Nobody ever goes to jail like the rest of us. Crooked bankers who brought down a world economy. No fines. No jail. But plenty of bailout money. Lohan...dont get me started. Mel Gibson,Yikes. Irans Policies. Appeasement.  Sosa. Bonds and the rest. Where are those liars. I'm fed up w/society. Class rules. If your poor or middle class your screwed. If your rich and a celebrity. your just misunderstood

If Roger lied in front of Congress, then he should go to jail. The Feds only indict when they have a strong case. Roger will lose a good part of his fortune to his lawyers.

Whether Clamans should or should not go to jail is irrelevant, IMO. He is stupid, and arrogant, and other flaws in his personality became public as the media focused in on him. He has enough money to keep himself out of jail, and his legacy has been tarnished beyond repair. IMO he belongs in the Hall, as does Bonds, but I don't think he will ever get in. Personally, I have no issues with players' use of PHDs, and I believe that plenty of "good guys" were users as well, it just never became public knowledge. If the sports media had been less enthusiastic in their condemnation, the public might have been more understanding as well. I see a lot of phony self righteousness in all of this steroid stuff, and I find that more distasteful than the use of PHDs. just my .02 worth.

 I'm also not sure if a trial is going to do much more damage to Clemens' reputation.  As much as I'd like to see the guy hang, I'm a little uncomfortable with anyone who testifies before congress being open to perjury indictments for something as trivial as this.  A manufacturer, say,  lying before congress about selling weapons to terrorists is one thing.  In the grand scheme of things whether someone used or didn't used steroids isn't all that important.  It's a big thing in Clemens's world - our belief he used them is going to keep him out of the Hall of Fame, and I'm sure he'd pay whatever fine and - probably - serve however many years he'd have to serve if he could change that fact. 

Posted by Jtpsops on 8/19/2010 5:45:00 PM (view original):
If he does go to jail, it'll be funny that it will be for lying and not for actually doing 'roids

That's what almost got Bill Clinton impeached...I'm sure he appreciated the situation as well

Posted by sheller on 8/22/2010 8:46:00 PM (view original):
 I'm also not sure if a trial is going to do much more damage to Clemens' reputation.  As much as I'd like to see the guy hang, I'm a little uncomfortable with anyone who testifies before congress being open to perjury indictments for something as trivial as this.  A manufacturer, say,  lying before congress about selling weapons to terrorists is one thing.  In the grand scheme of things whether someone used or didn't used steroids isn't all that important.  It's a big thing in Clemens's world - our belief he used them is going to keep him out of the Hall of Fame, and I'm sure he'd pay whatever fine and - probably - serve however many years he'd have to serve if he could change that fact. 

I disagree, if you gave people passes for perjury because the lie they told "was no big deal," it would completely undermind our judicial processes (at least as we know them).

The reference to OJ was only concerning being smart enough to keep his mouth shut.  Clemens couldn't find enough forums to spin his lies and that is going to be his downfall.  In these situations you either fess up or shut up, and let the chips fall.

zubinsum - It remains to be seen whether Clemens lied at all.  What we have now is his ex-trainer saying one thing, Clemens saying another, paraphenalia that may (or may not) contain evidence Clemens used banned substances, an aggressive investigator and a persuaded DA.  Until a court says so Clemens hasn't lied about anything.  I believe he was swimming in lies, but I'm not sure how many resources I'd be willing to spend proving that. 

 I know what you're saying, and if the prosecutor could go to trial with solid evidence of Clemens's lying, rather than trying to prove it, I'd be more than willing to see him nailed.

Go to jail for perjury? Could and should. It's not the point of the question, but I can't help but think about the Why? What more did he have to prove that he risked his reputation on illegal chemical youth and strength? Perhaps it's like people who fall in love with money. No matter how much you have, it's never enough.

Posted by micki on 8/20/2010 12:54:00 PM (view original):
Remind me again - did he ever admit to steriod use or has it been proven in a court of law? If not, then we live in a society that believes the "innocent until proven guilty".

Yes to HOF

The justice system must follow "innocent until proven guilty," but nothing says society has to be a bunch of saps who can't look at 2 and 2 and come up with 4 before it's proven in a court. If I want to believe that Clemens is a self-centered, stinking weasel who threw his wife under the Congressional bus; lied any time it suited him; thought he was above having to be truthful when testifying; believed that Congressmen would kneel before him and kiss his rings; assaulted his underage babysitter; and spent what (naturally) would have been the peak of his career getting fat and rich without giving a damn about anyone but himself, then I am entitled to that opinion without waiting for a jury to say it's so.

Posted by sheller on 8/24/2010 6:33:00 PM (view original):
zubinsum - It remains to be seen whether Clemens lied at all.  What we have now is his ex-trainer saying one thing, Clemens saying another, paraphenalia that may (or may not) contain evidence Clemens used banned substances, an aggressive investigator and a persuaded DA.  Until a court says so Clemens hasn't lied about anything.  I believe he was swimming in lies, but I'm not sure how many resources I'd be willing to spend proving that. 

 I know what you're saying, and if the prosecutor could go to trial with solid evidence of Clemens's lying, rather than trying to prove it, I'd be more than willing to see him nailed.

Unfortunately for Clemens, his one-time best friend in the game and another ex-teammate backed up everything McNamee said. It seems a mighty big stretch to think that McNamee would have told the truth about Knoblauch and Pettitte and lied about Clemens. If he were seeking publicity or fortune, selling out those two would have been enough without making something up about Clemens. And it seems accepted that steroid use can make one more aggressive; is there any better explanation for why a pitcher would throw the splintered end of a bat at another player from a few feet away?

I grew up a Red Sox fan and later was a big fan of Clemens, even when the late, great Will McDonough labeled him the Texas Con Man. But at some point, one has to recognize that the web-footed creature quacking so loudly is, indeed, a duck.

As for whether it's worth it to go after him, lying to a grand jury or Congress simply must be prosecuted every time.

Posted by redwingscup on 8/20/2010 11:00:00 AM (view original):

Posted by winnetka1 on 8/20/2010 8:39:00 AM (view original):
Congressional leaders don't lie?

they certainly do, all the time, but that's not the point. They have power and Clemens apparently lied to them and the American public, under oath no less. He deserves to go to jail, put his arrogant *** into the slammer for a year or so. It will serve as a deterent to others considering the same aggressive, disingenuous, arrogant strategy exercised by Clemens over the past several years. No matter what happens, Clemens reputation is wrecked beyond repair. It will be interesting to look at the HOF in 15 years or so and see that there is no Bonds, no McGwire, no Sosa, no Palmeiro, no Rodriguez, and no Clemens... some of the top HR hitters of all time coupled with the best pitcher of the past couple generations.

McGwire and ARod will get in.  And as much as I hate to say it, Bonds may even get in one day too.  I hate Bonds, but these days, it seems he deserves to be in just for his intelligence. With all these players being outed and guys prying into everything to try and find steroid users, it's insane that the #1 target still has not had any real proof unearthed on him. And, unlike Clemens, he's wisely stepped out of the spotlight and kept his mouth shut.

ARod will likely benefit from a) that he supposedly stopped taking steroids long before he was outed and b) will have played half his career after the allegations came out and in the era of strict testing. As for McGwire...he may have taken too long to come clean (a la Pete Rose), but I think he's really well liked and I think now, people will start to look for reasons they should vote him in. 

Agree with jtp about ARod and McGwire.  They kinda sorta in a way fessed up, and that's going to help a lot.  Bonds I'm less sure about - after all, there is that book out there detailing his roid and hgh use.  He's gonna need to talk Oprah out of retirement and give her a sobbing confession.  Then, yeah - he's in.  

  So far Mac has been the whipping boy/stalking horse when it comes to HoF acceptance of suspected roidsters.  You could argue whether, roids or no, he deserves to be in the Hall.  Still, anyone with 600 hr should expect more than 25% of the vote, which is all he's received in the couple of years he's been eligible.