Was WIS invented by a Dodger fan? Before I incur a healthy wrath here - I'd like to state my relative lack of research or experience. I've had 20+ teams almost all in OL's lest two recent Theme leagues where my Giants players are getting absolutely slaughtered. OK to the point...is it just me or do 99.9% of Giants players of all eras suck in the SIM? I've tried just about everybody...hitters with power, high average, OBP, pitchers with great advanced stat numbers and they all massively underperform. Willie Mays, Willie McCovey, Will Clark, Matt Williams, Mel Ott, Bobby Bonds, Barry Bonds (only used once cause even I hate the guy), Jeff Kent, Orlando Cepeda, Willie Montanez, Brett Butler, Juan Marichal, Gaylord Perry, Tim Lincecum, Bob Knepper, Billy Swift, John Burkett, Mike McCormick, Christy Matthewson, Stu Miller, Robb Nen, and ON and ON!! The only guy I have had that is at least consistently mediocre or better is 2005 Matt Cain as a closer/spot starter. Oh...and 2008 Pablo Sandoval was pretty good as a sub. I have a '93 Matt Williams right now at the 140 game mark of a theme league. RL 38 HR, 110 RBI, .294 avg, .560 Slug. What is he doing for me? .239/.270/.391. What sparked this self obsessed idiotic rant was me whining in my league, and another owner saying that he agreed and had stopped using Giants altogether.

Have any other owners noticed this or I am I completely out of my mind / out of line?

Join a franchise based theme, you'll do fine.

No i have have had 10+ giant theme leagues. cant every get them to full potential. always 5-10 games under .500... the reason is with the power numbers for the giants are maily modern guys like bonds and kent and such. they dont do great hitting off of deadballers due to normalization. Alot of them strike out to much and bonds never reaches potential because of the walks. I Mattewson iv always had success with though.

you''re playing with a handicap because you're limiting yourself to a small percentage of the available player pool for Open Leagues. as others have said, try a Franchise theme league and choose the Giants.

you're right about Barry Bonds, he's overpriced for his performance in this game. The trick is finding the values, not necessarily the top players.

I don't play OL with solely Giants, they are mixed in amongst my team - they just always stink...

I have the '60's Giants in a decade based franchise theme league and they are 35-55. Tied for dead last in the whole league. '69 Bobby Bonds RL .259/.351/.473 (32 homers, 45 SB's) is hitting so bad and with no power I've almost benched him at .208/.313/.346 (9 HR's). '69 McCovey RL .320/.453/.676 with 45 homers is hitting .273/.406/.447 - nearly .230 points below slugging! He recently went on one of those SIM balancing tears going 4-4 with two solo homers in 8-3 losses a couple of times to make his stats look respectible. Recently he was hitting below .250. '62 Felipe Alou hit .316 with 25 HR's. For me - .270 with 3 Hr's. This team with Jim Ray Hart, McCovey, Mays, Bonds, Alou, Davenport, etc is hitting .240. and slugging nearly 100 points below their RL Slug Pct.

Stud Reliever 62 Stu Miller at $4.8M at one point was 1-1 with 16 saves and a 1.93 ERA. 11 appearances later, he was 1-8, 3.80. Yes - he lost 7 games in 11 appearances as a closer at 100%. 68 Gaylord Perry ($10.6 M) with an ERC+ of 144 and a HR/9+ of 177 gave up 10 homers in 290 innings in RL has given up 12 through 90 games and 9-11, 4.09. '67 Frank Linzy with a RL Whip of 1.06 and ERA of 1.51 is close to a 1.5 whip and is 0-3 with a 4.56 ERA. I could keep on going, but why bother...

It's almost comical, but I'm getting to the point of giving up on Giants entirely also.

PS - at one point a couple of days ago I calculated that my 8 starting hitters were hitting an AVERAGE of 44 points below their RL performance. All 8 were underperforming at least 30 points, so they couldn't all be poor values...

post your line up

I've given up on the Giants too. Mays, McCovey, Bonds, Marichal, and Perry never live up to their salaries. Ive had some success with 89 Clark, 94 Williams, 03 Schmidt and 88 Krukow. 87 Reuschel has become one of my favorite closers. But I've played in multiple franchise theme leagues with SF Giants based teams and have never had any success. I wonder if the players not fitting the ballparks has anything to do with it.

I'll throw some fuel on the fire. I had a team based around Bobby Bolin's career that finished just under league average. Cepeda especially didn't deliver. Marichal always has that nasty HR habit bringing him down.

C-Mat on the other hand is a fantastic higher cap SP option. He led one of my teams through a championship run. Other guys I've done at least so-so with: Buck Ewing, Fred Toney, Art Nehf. Also, Rich Aurilia '06 (okay, he was a Red that year but still a Giant at heart) is killing the ball in one of my prog leagues. He's coming freakishly close to replicating RL numbers:

Aurilia league stats in 410 AB: .306 /.346 /.515, 22 HR
Aurilia real life stats in 440 AB: .300 /.349 / .518, 23 HR

I have this Giants team. I commission the league. It's a $120mil cap and you can use any season of any player to ever play 1 game for your team. So alot of these guys aren't actually being used in "Giants" seasons. But many (New York as well) are. I'll let you know how it goes in AT&T:

Ballpark:

AT&T Park (HR LF/RF:-3/-3 1B:1 2B:0 3B:2)

Bancroft, Dave	1921	S	162	642	128	204	28	16	6	71	70	24	4	18	11	.318	.389	.441	.830	739	0	23
Mays, Willie	1957	R	160	615	118	205	27	21	37	102	80	65	1	40	20	.333	.407	.626	1.033	703	6	0
Seymour, Cy	1905	L	158	615	101	232	42	22	8	128	54	54	2	22	19	.377	.429	.559	.988	681	0	10
Orr, Dave	1886	R	163	685	112	232	30	37	8	109	20	62	6	19	28	.338	.363	.527	.890	712	0	0
Hornsby, Rogers	1924	R	150	564	127	239	45	15	26	99	94	34	2	5	13	.424	.507	.696	1.203	673	0	14
Smith, Elmer	1893	L	161	651	152	225	33	29	9	129	97	29	6	33	29	.346	.435	.525	.960	753	0	0
Connor, Roger	1885	L	159	658	148	244	33	22	1	94	74	12	0	72	46	.371	.435	.495	.929	732	0	0
Ewing, Buck	1888	R	127	513	103	157	22	19	7	72	30	35	4	66	28	.306	.348	.465	.813	547	0	0
Mathewson, Christy	1908	R	59	136	12	21	2	2	0	12	9	9	2	0	0	.155	.221	.202	.423	155	0	7
Johnson, Randy	2004	R	35	80	1	10	3	0	0	6	4	37	0	0	0	.125	.167	.163	.329	87	0	3
Schmidt, Jason	2003	R	29	61	2	4	0	0	0	0	2	30	0	0	0	.066	.095	.066	.161	78	0	15
McCarthy, Johnny	1948	L	59	60	6	16	0	1	2	13	3	2	0	0	0	.263	.300	.404	.704	63	0	0
Peterson, Cap	1963	R	22	54	7	14	2	0	1	2	2	13	0	0	0	.259	.286	.352	.638	57	0	1
Lewis, Mark	1993	R	14	52	6	13	2	0	1	5	0	7	0	3	0	.250	.250	.346	.596	53	0	1
Frey, Lonny	1948	L	32	54	7	14	1	0	1	6	4	6	0	0	0	.255	.309	.333	.642	58	0	0
Jorgensen, Spider	1951	L	29	53	5	12	0	0	2	8	3	2	1	0	0	.235	.291	.353	.644	58	0	1
Wilhoit, Joe	1917	L	36	53	9	18	2	2	0	8	8	5	0	0	0	.340	.431	.460	.891	62	0	1
Rueter, Kirk	1995	L	10	18	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	7	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000	20	0	2
Blue, Vida	1970	S	6	15	1	3	1	0	1	3	1	7	0	0	0	.200	.250	.467	.717	17	0	1
Hill, Carmen	1918	R	8	16	1	3	0	0	0	1	4	4	0	0	0	.167	.333	.167	.500	21	0	1
Henry, Bill	1964	L	37	6	1	3	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	.500	.500	.500	1.000	6	0	0
McMahon, Don	1968	R	20	4	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	2	0	0	0	.000	.000	.000	.000	4	0	0
Pitcher Totals	--	--	204	336	18	44	6	2	1	23	20	97	2	0	0	.131	.184	.170	.354	388	0	29
Hitter Totals	--	--	1432	5269	1029	1825	267	184	109	846	539	350	26	278	194	.346	.409	.529	.938	5891	6	51
Totals	--	--	1636	5605	1047	1869	273	186	110	869	559	447	28	278	194	.333	.396	.507	.903	6279	6	80

It's hard to get numbers close to RL numbers at the best of times... the higher the cap the less chance you get. Stadium choice can skew things somewhat.

OTOH... I figure the SIM hates the Reds (home of legendary underachiever, Joe Morgan) more than the Giants.

I just finished a 90M Franchise League (maybe 100M with the AAA) and pretty much all my team, with the exception of '61 Frank Robinson, came nowhere near their RL numbers. '61 Vada Pinson, for instance, hit .280 as opposed to RL .343. Joe Morgan was the usual disappointing Joe Morgan. And so forth.

Made the playoffs, though... so, I can't really complain.

As an aside, '92 Bonds from the Giants team was the MVP.

I had a pretty good Reds team built off of Ron Oesters teammates. Made it to the WS if I remember correctly.

And I dont really expect real life numbers but I'd expect Willie Mays to hit better then .250.... even in Candlestick.

Well I'm not having a problem. I'm in a league were each team chose the team they wanted to progress with. I chose the 1962 Giants my team was 106m and some teams 155m. my record isn't great but I can't complain about the bats.