Twist & Clones Tournament - Writeup Topic

Use this thread to post your draft strategies and other draft related thoughts.
10/20/2024 5:02 PM
Part 1: Prep work.

To prepare for this tournament, I built at least one team for each of the 16 franchises. For some franchises, I built two teams. I certainly can't claim that I found the best year for each franchise, but at least it would provide me something to compare to as I started to build other rosters.

Knowing that I am going to enter a team in each league changes how I think about my selection process. I want to try and get as many teams possible to advance to the next round. For the early picks, I am hoping to find a team that can win 95+ games and have a shot at an early pick in the next round. For the later rounds, I am more focused on division alignment and finding a team that could maybe win 84-85 games and steal a weak division.

I am typing this from memory, but here are 19 original rosters that I built (in no particular order). I think there are a couple of others that I am not remembering. Not surprisingly, many of these teams got taken in round 1 (i.e., the first 24 hours of the draft). Including the two teams I took, that's 11 teams taken in round 1. A total of 74 teams were selected before my first 24 hour-wait time elapsed.

1916 Giants - taken 5th by me in round 2
2005 Yankees - taken pick 4 by firesalt in round 1
1908 Dodgers - taken pick 1 by calhoop in round 1
1906 Dodgers - taken pick 6 by Jtpsops in round 1
1927 Athletics - taken pick 1 by pedrocerrano in round 1
1933 Cardinals - taken pick 8 by barracuda3 in round 2 (I meant to take them in round 2, but typed in the wrong year)
1910 Indians - taken pick 1 by calhoop in round 1
1901 Pirates - taken pick 14 by me in round 4
1915 Red Sox - taken pick 1 by me in round 1
2002 Red Sox - taken pick 5 by ff09 in round 1
1907 Cubs - taken pick 6 by calhoop in round 2
1916 White Sox - taken pick 1 by pedrocerrano in round 1
1917 Braves - taken pick 1 by me in round 1
1996 Braves - taken pick 3 by barracuda3 in round 2
2011 Tigers - taken pick 6 by me in round 2
1916 Phillies - taken pick 2 by emanes10 in round 1
1909 Browns - taken pick 17 by thejuice6 in round 6 (Hmmm, maybe I overvalued this team?)
1995 Orioles - taken pick 4 by me in round 3
1977 Reds - taken pick 1 by redcped in round 1
1927 Senators -taken pick 1 by ronthegenius in round 1
10/20/2024 5:49 PM (edited)
Part 2 - Round 1

While I was writing up the ad for this tournament in the classifieds, I was watching Sunday Night Football, and trying to figure out which two teams I should select first. I knew a bunch of the teams on my list would get taken before I got to pick again. Maybe I should have gone with the best teams from a weak franchise. Ironically, I ended up taking teams from franchises that I actually built *two* teams for.

Team #1
1917 Boston Braves
One of the easiest ways of finding an obscure team that is perfect for this theme is to use baseball-reference to view a list of a franchises pitchers. When I see Ed Walsh pitched for the 1917 Braves, I then check out the full roster. With Art Nehf and Ed Reulbach joining Ed Walsh, this will be the best pitching staff in the NL. The offense doesn't have any studs (no hitter over $7.5M), but the infield (Johnny Evers, Red Smith, Sherry Magee) is decent, so at least the offense is balanced. I anticipate a bunch of Mathews and/or Aaron teams in the NL Central and NL West, so my pitching should mute their HRs. Also, I avoid all the Maddux teams in the AL. This team could be a 95-win team.

Team #2
1915 Boston Red Sox
In retrospect, maybe I should have taken the 1910 Cleveland Naps with my other first round pick. calhoop wisely grabbed this team very quickly. The Red Sox franchise has a lot of decent teams to choose from. I guess the two main reasons I took this team - I avoid all the Pedro Martinez teams, and there won't be that much pitching in the N.L. side of this league. Oh, and I get to roster Babe Ruth x 2 and Tris Speaker x 2. This is a rare team with great pitching (D.Leonard, J.Wood, C.Mays, R.Foster, R.Collins, E.Shore) and great hitting (except at SS). I do think this team can win 95+ games. I bet calhoop's 1910 Indians team wins 100+.

10/20/2024 6:18 PM
Part 3 - Round 2 (The Typo)

The wait between round 1 and round 2 was very hard as team after team that I had on my list got taken. As soon as one of my hopeful teams would get taken, I would empty that team in the draft center and start building a new team. Sometimes, a new team I just built would then get taken. Anyway, as I was watching Monday Night Football waiting for my turn, I had my choices narrowed down to three teams, 1933 Cardinals, 1916 Giants & 2011 Tigers. Although the Cardinals franchise has a lot of quality seasons to choose from, I was for sure taking 1933 because it has a bunch of guys I really like including Frankie Frisch, Ripper Collins, Rogers Hornsby and Dazzy Vance. I went to sleep shortly after posting. I woke up and learned that I had typed in the wrong year for the Cardinals. I only realized it when I saw 1933 taken by barracuda3 and thought "Wait - that's my team". I had 1933 typed into the "Notes section" at the bottom of the Team Center (I type in the year and team for all my teams b/c I have 20 unused teams in the Draft Center and it helps me keep track). For some unknown reason, I typed in 1934 everywhere else. I felt sick to my stomach.

Team #3
1916 New York Giants
Although the Tigers franchise have fewer really strong teams, I went with this Giants team because of the combination of Christy Mathewson, Ferdie Schupp, Edd Roush and Benny Kauff. The team also has very strong defense, with A+ range at 2B (Roush), at SS (Herzog) and at CF (Kauff). Besides Mathewson and Schupp, the pitching staff also has Jeff Tesreau, Slim Sallee and Fred Anderson. Another team with great pitching and very strong hitting. I don't regret taking this team over the 2011 Tigers (assuming I got 1933 Cardinals and the 2011 Tigers went before my next turn). I would be disappointed if this team didn't win at least 90 games.

Team #4
2011 Detroit Tigers
Of course, since I didn't get the 1933 Cardinals, it was a no-brainer to select my other choice. Five Tigers teams were already taken, including 2013 and 2014. I like the 2011 roster better. Yes - they are weak at 2B, but I plan on playing my second Carlos Guillen there. The offense is amazing with Miguel Cabrera at 1B/3B, Guillen at 2B/SS, Victor Martinez at C/DH (also Alex Avila at C), Magglio Ordonez at LF/RF with Austin Jackson playing CF. But what makes this team a good selection is the very strong pitching staff with Verlander and Scherzer representing 80% of my starting rotation. And I have three RPs with sub 0.85 whips. Ironically, barracuda3 said that he strong considered 2011 Tigers at his turn (to go along with the 1933 Cardinals pick). This team will likely be in the AL West along with 2013 and 2014 so they will beat each other up. The wildcard team should come from this division. Another 90-win team. Of course, I would expect my early picks to do well.
10/20/2024 6:53 PM
I knew I wouldn't have nearly enough time to build all the teams I would have liked to have tried, in an ideal world. So I developed several assumptions and heuristics to dramatically reduce my search time:

-- With a couple of notable exceptions (e.g. the Ruth/Gehrig Yankees), the major differentiating factor in any given league would be the quality and quantity of starting pitching. I prioritized teams that had 2 elite starters who could (with clones) provide 1000+ high quality innings.
-- Several franchises are notorious for not having nearly enough elite SP across their history - try to pick those franchises first.
-- Look for teams that can provide A+ range at multiple critical positions (2B, SS, OF)
-- Avoid modern teams (1990-2024); several reasons for this, the most significant being the reliance on low-IP/G relief pitchers, who fatigue quickly in WIS and usually underperform. Not that salary matters in this theme, but those RPs are also uniformly overpriced IMO. The most modern team that I have is the 1988 Twins.
-- When possible, and especially toward the later rounds, divisional alignment factored heavily into my decisions.

Round 1:
1915 White Sox, 1903 Pirates
These are two of the worst franchises in history for elite SP. Thankfully, that's not true for the deadball era. The White Sox bring over 1200 elite innings from 1908/1910 Walsh and 1917 Cicotte. Bullpen is very strong with 19 Cicotte, 16 Benz, 15 Wolfgang, and 16 Russell. Offense should rake with clones of Eddie Collins, Joe Jackson, Jack Fournier (one of my WIS favorites), and the 1922 OF version of Reb Russell. Excellent defense for the era. I'll be surprised and disappointed if this team doesn't win 90+ games.
The Pirates pitching is not quite as good, by Cy Falkenberg, Jack Pfiester, Deacon Phillippe, and Sam Leever should do Ok. Clones of Wagner and Fred Clarke anchor the lineup. A+ range at 5 positions. Don't know if we can beat schwarze's 1901 Bucs, but this team should be decent.

Round 2:
1940 Tigers, 1917 Phillies
The Tigers also have execrable SP throughout their history, especially once I took the Verlander/Scherzer teams off the table with my "no modern teams" rule. 1940 gives them 2 Newhousers and 2 Trouts, along with 1946 Rowe as a stud closer. Offenses has clones of York, Greenberg, Gehringer, Averill. A+ range at SS (Bartell). We're in a division with 3 teams that will likely be very similar, so anything above 81 wins will feel like a bonus.
I had to have a Pete Alexander Phillies team. Ultimately went with 1917 because it brought Cravath, Bancroft, Evers, and 1911 Schulte to anchor the offense. They also have Charles (formerly known as "Chief") Bender who turned into a very good 2-man bullpen, as well as excellent defense for the era, with A+ range at SS (both Bancrofts), 1B (the 1910 Paskert has often approached 40 plus plays for me), and good seasons from Stock and Whitted. We lucked into a division with 1930, 1957, 1964 (away from the other Alexanders). I like our chances to win 95+ here.

Round 3:
1921 Indians, 1988 Twins
With the Joss Indians and Johnson Senators largely gone by this point, I needed to pivot. The Indians should still have excellent pitching with Coveleski, Wood, Ray Caldwell, and a number of other guys who would be in the rotation for some of my later selections. Tris Speaker clones anchor a potent offense. I'm expecting close to 400 doubles for this team. Divisional alignment is again our friend as we avoid the Joss teams. kstober's 1922 will probably look very similar, but I like our chances against the 1949-50 clubs.
Once you leave the Johnson-era behind, the Twins pitching for most of their history is execrable for a league of this caliber. In retrospect, I think I should have gone with a Johnson-era club in round 1. But since that was now moot, 1988 lets me use Carlton clones for the first (but not last) time. Combined with Blyleven, a decent Joe Niekro, and the 1981 Reardon, the staff here is about as good as I think you can put together for this franchise - again without Johnson. Unfortunately, this may be the worst offense of any of my 16 teams. How the Twins ever won 2 WS titles in this era is beyond me, and probably says something about the overall quality of play in MLB in the 1980s. We're in a division with 1987 (which I expect will have a very similar roster) and 1970 (the Oliva/Carew tandem will be formidable, and Killebrew clones may hit 20 HR apiece just against my pitching staff), so I don't have high hopes here.

Round 4:
1970 Cardinals, 1959 Reds
Let's do Carlton clones again! With 2 Gibsons, and an offense that includes multiple Torres, Allens, Brocks...got a good divisional draw here - avoided the other Gibson teams. 85+ wins here, i think.
The Reds are...not good. 1959 lets me sneak in clones of Cuellar and Newcombe, The OF can hit, the infield cannot, and we're in a division with 2 of the Big Red Machine teams. We have A+ range at SS and 2 OF spots, but that might not matter when Bench, Perez, Foster, Morgan, et al are taking Newk deep 4-5 times a game...

Round 5:
1973 Orioles, 1959 Braves
Was all set to take a deadball-era Browns team when Pedro grabbed them a few hours before my spot was due up. You guys all know what this team looks like: Palmer, Cuellar, McNally, a decent pen, excellent defense, mediocre offense. We certainly will miss having Frank Robinson in the lineup, but the good news is our divisional draw puts us against 1976, 1981, 1995, so we may sneak into a playoff spot.
You all know the 1959 Braves as well. It's a typical Spahn/Mathews/Aaron team of the era, with a couple of nice additions: Schoedients, Avila, Mickey Vernon, Enos Slaughter. 81 wins would be a success here, but who knows? We're in the NL, so we avoid all the Maddux teams, and the Braves never really had great pitching. That 1917 club with Walsh will be interesting, for sure.

Round 6:
1979 Yankees, 1952 Red Sox
At the time I posted that I love one of these and hate the other. As a diehard Sox fan, it pains me to say that I love the Yankees pick here. But the 79 Yankees are one of my favorite twist teams. Guidry, Tiant, Hunter, Righetti, Gossage... we should easily have the best pitching in our division, and we're in the AL so we miss the Ruth/Gehrig teams entirely. Might be my best team in all of round 1. We'll see.
The 52 Sox absolutely suck. I waited way too long to take a Red Sox team, so this one is just for fun, with the Williams clones and Lou Boudreau holding down the fort at C and SS. The pitching is horrible; we may give up 2000 runs.

Round 7:
1928 Dodgers, 1966 Cubs
I like these Dodgers. The Vance clones, Babe Herman on offense, and A+ range at 5 positions (1B, 2B, SS, 2 OF - hello Max Carey, I see you there). Given the divisional draw, I like our chances.
The Cubs are not good, but lucked into a division with 1933, 1935, 1940. They just might be the best of a weak crop. Banks, Williams, Santo, a nice Harvey Kuenn, Robin Roberts and Fergie on the mound with Abernathy in the pen. If we hit more HR than we give up, we might sneak out a division title with like 83 wins.

Round 8:
1970 A's; 1968 Giants
Nothing special about either team; both are in divisions with almost identical clubs (1967-70 Giants in AL East, 1972/1975 A's join the 1931 Grove/Foxx mosters in the NL West). Not expecting much from either team.
10/22/2024 9:54 AM (edited)
Round 3

The only teams left from my original batch are the 1901 Pirates, 1909 Browns and 1995 Orioles. I had since built a new batch of teams so every team in my Draft Center is occupied with potential teams that I may end up playing. For some franchises, I had only built one team, and am now realizing that maybe I should have considered scarcity for my early picks. So this round, I made an effort to go with franchises that didn't have a lot of good options.

Team #5
1970 Minnesota Twins
I had only built the 1927 Senators team, so as I started digging into the Twins franchise, I quickly realized that I needed to grab a decent team now or get stuck with garbage at the end. I wanted to stay out of the NL to avoid all the good Walter Johnson teams. Doing a search of the Twins historical pitching, I discovered Luis Tiant pitched one season (1970) with this franchise. What an interesting career Tiant had. After going 21-9, 1.60 ERA for the Indians in 1968, he went 9-20, 3.71 with a league high 37 HRs & 129 walks allowed in 1969. What happened in one year? He then played the one season with the Twins (7-3, 3.40), struggled the following year in Boston (1-7 in 10 starts), but starting in 1972, he had eight straight pretty strong years, seven with the Red Sox (134-74 record). Anyway, getting clones of Tiant, Blyleven, Kaat, plus decent RP seasons of Tom Hall, Ron Perranoski and Stan Williams, this pitching staff should be one of the best in the A.L. I like the pitching, but I really love the offense... Rod Carew was my favorite player when I was a kid. Tony Oliva had a short career but was really good in those few seasons. Thankfully, this tournament allows a DH, so I can start Killebrew there (and maybe some at 3B), although the multi-faceted Cesar Tover may start there with his A+ range. We'll ignore mentioning catcher and shortstop. Prediction 88 wins.

Team #6
2015 Baltimore Orioles
So why did I select this team when I still had the 1909 Browns also available? Well, after looking at the roster again, I know why I selected this team, this early. This is Kevin Brown's only season with the Orioles, so pairing him with Mussina gives me a pitching advantage over similar era Orioles teams. The bullpen is deep with Doug Jones, Arthur Rhodes, Joe Borowski, Jesse Orosco plus short-inning starters Sid Fernandez and Ben McDonald. But more importantly, the offense has no weaknesses. Chris Hoiles, Rafael Palmeiro, Bobby Bonilla, Cal Ripken Jr., Brady Anderson, Andy Van Slyke... I'm not even sure how I can start all of these guys. The weakest player is Bret Barbarie at 2B (.310/.356/.406 C/A-) but his clone is a great utility guy (.353/.435/.515). I expect this team to win 90 games.
10/22/2024 11:47 AM
Round 4

Since last round, 1943 Cardinals (redcped), 1919 White Sox (kstober), 1921 Indians (contrarian23) and the 1999 Athletics (njbigwig) have been taken and removed from my short list. I really wanted the A's here. Nice pick njbigwig.

When you know that you are playing a team in each league, each round's selection process ultimately comes down to having multiple choices for each franchise and determining which 2nd or 3rd choice you can live with, if your first choice gets taken. I had a lot of time so I built a bunch of teams I really liked, and this round was very difficult to narrow it down to just two choices. Teams that I strongly considered taking here include the 1988 Cubs (w/Maddux/Sandberg/Dawson/Palmeiro), the 1970 Cardinals (GIbson/Carlton/D.Allen/Torre/T.Simmons) and the 1991 White Sox (w/Thomas/Sosa/Raines/Fisk). All three were taken after I picked. But I do have backup choices that I like for the Cubs, Cardinals and White Sox. I also have multiple teams built for the Dodgers and Yankees so I plan on waiting on those franchises.

Team #7
1901 Pittsburgh Pirates
This was the last team in my original list (not include 1909 Browns - (I already an Orioles team). Not sure why people were not jumping on this team early. 1903 was the third Pirates season taken. 1901 was the 14th season taken. I can make the argument that 1901 is a better choice than 1903, with the addition of Jack Chesbro and Rube Waddell. Maybe folks just never looked at 1901, due to the rule of no players pre-1901 allowed. Anyway, give me Honus Wagner, Fred Clarke, Ginger Beaumont, Tommy Leach on offense plus Chesbro, Phillippe, Tannehill, Waddell on the mound. The catcher situation is ugly as I have to platoon five guys who have between 117 and 206 PA (four of the five can't hit). Still, I feel like this team is the best team in the division and should have no problem getting to at least 86 wins.

Team #8
1988 Cincinnati Reds
I agonized over this pick. I really wanted that 1970 Cardinals team. Imagine a team with Gibson & Carlton in that pitching-heavy era, but with an offense that included Ted Simmons, Dick Allen and Joe Torre, Oh and Jose Cruz shares the outfield with Lou Brock. I will concede that 2B and SS are pretty weak. I am having regrets passing on them. But as I am researching the Reds, after those mid 1970's seasons, they don't have much which is probably the reason the Reds franchise was the very last franchise to fill. If I passed on this team, my backup was the 1973 Reds (great offense, no so great pitching). Note that 1973 went shortly after. One of the things I liked about 1988 is the balance. The hitting is not as good as the Big Red Machine years, but Paul O'Neill, Eric Davis, Barry Larkin, Kal Daniels, Ken Griffey Sr, Buddy Bell should provide enough runs. The defense is very strong. The starting rotation of Jose Rijo x 2, Mario Soto and Danny Jackson is ok, not great, but the "Nasty Boys" bullpen is the strength of the team with Dibble, Franco, Charlton, Murphy, Rasmussen. Ironically, I found out later that DarthDurron was going to take the 1988 Reds with his next pick. He instead took the 1926 Reds. contrarian23 was going to take the 1926 Reds, instead of the 1970 Cardinals. So we go full circle. We're in the same division as Bill_James47's 1989 team, who he grabbed one pick before 1988... very similar rosters (he adds Kent Tekulve). I get Durham at 1B instead of Benzinger. I could see us both dueling it out with 85-86 wins.
10/22/2024 12:30 PM (edited)
Teams 1 and 2:

1914 Red Sox

I missed the option to take a spot in every league when I first saw this posted so I went with teams I knew would play well. In this case I know it probably locked me into playing against three similar teams... these Red Sox teams were stellar for this stretch. I also knew they would get all the Teddy Ballgame teams as there isn't much reason to take teams from The Babe's departure to Ted's arrival. I was excited to see the 1915 team get pushed out of my division... no Babe or Ted to contend with... just LOTS of dead-ball pitching.

Leonard, Shore, Wood, et al should do well. A lineup with two Babes, two Speakers and some other guys... of course it will likely be "the other guys" that makes the difference here.

1931 Yankees
My first thought was to jump to a more modern team and leave the Babe teams alone. By next thought was that if I went with a Babe team I would likely be playing almost all Babe teams. How to be better than the others? Make sure you have Lou. Make sure you have left handed pitching.

Managed to roster 1200+ innings of LH pitching with two Lefty Gomez, and Pennock. Lou gets to play first and third. Babe in two outfield spots. The rest of the lineup lets me move some RH and LH hitters in. No one with a real life average below .330 should play any significant time.

Playing against 1930, 32 and 33 will likely make luck (or field choice) the deciding factors.
10/22/2024 12:33 PM
Round 5

I've been so preoccupied building various Cardinals, Dodgers, Yankees, Cubs and White Sox rosters that I have spent very little time on the Indians and even less time on the Phillies. I literally built these two rosters an hour or so before I selected them. I figured that I liked the team enough - let's pick them and move on.

Team #9
1913 Philadelphia Phillies
This is what I wrote when I selected the team... "I really haven't built any Phillies teams other than the one I built with my first group of teams, which got selected very early (1916). I found a season that I can live with and so I'm just going to grab them now so I don't have to think about Philadelphia anymore. Alexander, Rixey and Camnitz should be enough pitching." This team is just a slight downgrade over the 1916 team that I really liked. Unfortunately, I am in the same division as 1916, 1915 and 1911 so my best shot at advancing to the next round is if we win enough games to get one of the two at large bids. this does feel like a slightly-above .500 team. EDIT: I just set my lineup. I hadn't realized that I have 8 right-handed starting batters. Revised projection: 75 wins.

Team #10
2018 Cleveland Indians
The 1995-1997 Indians were teams I had looked at due to Hershiser and the offense. Two of those three years were gone, and I considered 1997 here, but decided I liked having good pitching better than great hitting. I was very happy to grab one of the only two years that Kluber, Bauer and Bieber all played for the Indians. This year also gave me stud RPs Andrew Miller and Brad Hand, to go along with long reliever Carlos Carrasco. Sure, they're a bit HR prone but you can't argue the crazy low whip. This team has 1693 innings with a cumulative 0.92 whip. The offense has a bunch of lower-OBP, high-SLG guys, including a few switch hitters (which I like). Jose Ramirez, Francisco Lindor, Josh Donaldson, Edwin Encarnacion, Melky Cabrera, Michael Brantley, Yandy Diaz make up most of the offense. The tricky thing was selecting a ballpark. Do I select a HR park to help the hitters but hurt the pitching? Or vice versa? I went with a unique slant by taking Hilltop. The main SPs are all right-handed plus Donaldson and Encarnacion are my biggest HR hitters (both right handed). Guys like Brantley, Cabrera, Lindor have fewer HRs (I selected '16 Lindor for his SS defense). I don't normally like taking teams in that late 2010's or later, but I couldn't pass up getting great pitching especially given that most of those 1990's teams won't have great pitching. (Also, I purposely stayed out of the Joss-Speaker league). This team could approach 90 wins if my lefty RPs don't get killed at Hilltop.
10/23/2024 7:19 PM (edited)
I wasn't planning on returning to this tournament. I've entered 1-2 teams a few times, almost always advanced to the final or second to last round and that's it. But I had some time free, fiddled around a little and then jumped in, emphasizing FUN as much as strategy here!

Team One - 1923 Yankees
Only one Gehrig/Ruth team had been taken, the 1931 squad with its absurdly good offense Who wouldn't want to enter a team with two Gehrigs and two Ruths, though? If you wouldn't, you don't know how to have fun on this site. I came close to grabbing the 1928 squad (which was picked right after me), but in the end I decided that 2 Carl Mays and 2 Bob Shawkeys was worth more than 2 Stan Coveleskis. I also thought double Wally Schang over double Bill Dickey and a couple other offensive differences wasn't much of a downgrade. It'll be fun to watch the stats accumulate for my top four hitters, and I'll be curious to see how the 1923, 1928, and 1931 squads perform against one another.

Team Two - 2005 Cardinals
I thought of the Cardinals because their earlier seasons have some stunningly productive players like Hornsby, Mize, Musial, and others the modern squads can't compete with. I grabbed these guys because two Cris Carpenters and two Wainwrights plus some great RPs make for a very fine pitching staff, alongside all of the Pujols, Larry Walker, Rolen, Edmonds magic that makes for excellent offense and defense. I'll be disappointed if this team doesn't win 90.

Team Three - 1974 Red Sox
I know the Sox better than any franchise in baseball, by far. Their deadball pitchers, Speaker, Ruth, Ted Williams, and Jimmie Foxx are extraordinary. And Pedro is Pedro, of course. That said, this is my favorite of all the Sox twist years and by far the favorite team I scouted, even if they don't end up being the most effective. A rotation of two Juan Marichals and one Luis Tiant, with another Tiant in relief is just incredibly fun fantasy baseball. Maybe they give up way too many HRs, but in between Lefty Grove and Roger Clemens, this is by far the best pitching you're going to find for them. I mean, getting my top 1463 IP in at a total WHIP under 1.00, that doesn't happen (I don't thing for any Sox squad between 1919 and 1986.) Add to that a crazy wealth of legendary hitters from my childhood and just before - Yaz and Rice and Lynn and Fisk's two greatest seasons each, Dewey Evans' and Cecil Cooper's best, Rico Petrocelli's magical 1969 campaign, and so on - and even seeing this squad on paper makes me smile. It'll continue to do so over the next two months, regardless of how they perform.
10/22/2024 1:06 PM (edited)
Teams 3 + 4:
Now that I have a team in every league... what teams to pick. Look first at franchises that are suspect for one reason or another. Look for teams that had players who were standouts. Look for "one offs" or rookie/last gasp players that had great seasons to use. Think about what the teams around them will probably look like.

1983 Phillies
I feel like the Phillies don't have a ton of great options. It was just a feeling, not research based... gut says pick one I really like and forget about them. I started looking at the Schmidt years. Oh look, he played with Rose. What? Joe Morgan joined them in 83'? That's six starters. L/R balance. OH, a 40 something Perez? So many old guys who I can twist to prime years.

The pitching will be an issue. I have two starters (both Carlton) and many long inning relievers. I am going to try and run a two man rotation. I will be quick to go with two and a bullpen day if it's not working.

1992 Pirates
I didn't think there was much after the Bonds years that will work for the Pirates. Any of those teams should be beatable. Any of them would be in my league if not my division. I didn't think that would be ONLY ONE TEAM. What? One Team after 1992? OK. Guess my division will be harder than I thought.

I still get Bonds, Bell, and Van Slyke to be the core of my line up. Pitching should be ok. If there were two more teams from after this one in the timeline I would love this team. As is... eh.

10/22/2024 1:47 PM
Round 6

Six teams left to select. I am waiting on the Yankees, Dodgers, White Sox and A's, mainly b/c I still have multiple choices for those franchises, but also b/c I want some additional information on what league/division I will be playing in.

Team #11
1908 Chicago Cubs
The 1907 Cubs was one of the very first rosters that I built and they went very early (pick #6 by calhoop). 1906 went at pick #10 (nocomm999) and 1909 went at pick #12 (ejstockman). This 1908 roster is nearly identical to all those other rosters, but for some reason this season lasted to pick #21. Everybody knows the key players on all of these teams so I don't need to go over that. But can all four of these teams finish above .500? Not so sure. The NL Central has 1910, 1911, 1913 and 1916. All these teams have great pitching and below average hitting (compared to the late 1920 and early 1930's teams). I do think that the wildcard team and the two at-large bids will come from these two divisions, so that's 5 out of 8 teams advancing. Which three teams do not advance? Maybe it comes down to 1-run game luck? I will go conservative and predict a 81-81 season for 1908.

Team #12
1962 St. Louis Cardinals
I had two Cardinals teams loaded in my Draft Center, 2012 and 1962. I really liked 2012 with Berkman & Beltran, but decided it would be more fun having two Stan Musials on my team, plus Carpenter and Wainwright don't ever seem to do well for me. Red Schoendienst will be starting at 2B and SS. Ken Boyer and Minnie Minoso will battle it out for the starting 3B position. Bill White at 1B. And Curt Flood provides defense on the outfield. Bob GIbson, Larry Jackson and Curt SImmons provides ore than enough SP innings, while Lindy McDaniel, Bobby Shantz, Ray Sadecki and Ray Washburn will pitch in relief. We narrowly avoided playing in the NL with all those Hornsby teams. We have a similar roster to mllama54's 1963 unit. I would expect that both of our teams will be fighting it out for the division title. Prediction 85 wins. Note that 2012 was taken by 3dayrotation in round 7.
10/22/2024 2:07 PM
Round 7

We're finally at the point in the draft where teams I have in my team center are not getting taken anymore. So now, it's basically deciding which of the multiple choices to actually use. There is a lot of analysis of division alignment prior to my pick, which will be apparent as I describe why I picked each of the remaining teams.

Team #13
1933 New York Yankees
I had at least 4 different Yankees seasons (from four different decades) to choose from when my turn came up. I won't divulge which seasons I didn't take (for reasons that will become apparent later). I actually had not built any Ruth/Gehrig Yankees teams until the day before I made this pick. I saw that 1930, 1931, 1932 and 1934 had already been selected and I was curious why 1933 wasn't chosen yet. I can't see any reason for this. This roster is virtually the same as the other rosters... Dickey, Gehrig, Lazzeri, Sewell, Ruth, Combs. One difference on offense is that Billy Werber is my starting 3B (A+ range). The pitching has Lefty Gomez, Herb Pennock, Red Ruffing, Wilcy Moore, Jumbo Brown and Johnny Allen. With all the Ruth/Gehrig teams in this league, I briefly considered using 1916 Babe Ruth to have another LHSP. But I just can't justify downgrading from '23 Ruth to '25 Combs in the OF. The other teams in my division include 1930, 1931 and 1932. I honestly can't think of any reason why those teams are any better than my 1933 team. I am going to predict 87 wins.

Team #14
1963 Chicago White Sox
After the first wave of teams got selected in round #1, I immediately started building new teams, I quickly built the 1963 and 1967 White Sox. I was hoping to eventually find a good hitting White Sox team and considered 1991 until they got taken. DarthDurron took 1967 with pick 15, then glowguy took 1964 with pick 16. For some reason, 1963 stuck around until I grabbed them with pick 21. Obviously, the pitching is great with Horlen, Peters, Pizarro, Wilhelm, & Fisher. The hitting is not as good as those Frank Thomas White Sox teams. I actually preferred 1963 over those other 1960's teams because of Nellie Fox. I plan on starting Nellie Fox at 2B and at 3B (upgrading Pete Ward). Don Buford provides some nice OBP in the OF (and is a switch hitter). Joe Cunningham gives me more OBP at 1B and DH. And I have very good defense with Fox, Ron Hansen & Jim Landis having A+ range at 2B, SS, CF. Oh, and OF Charlie Maxwell (.326/.414/.534) will be my best hitter. I had a pretty strong 2000's season queued up, but that team's starting pitching was a bit too light for my taste. The more I think about it, the more I like this team. I waited as long as possible to pick this team because I wanted to avoid being in the NL so we don't have to battle against those Ed Walsh / Ed Cicotte / Joe Jackson teams. We barely got into the AL and compared to most teams in the AL, our pitching is elite. Prediction: 86 wins.
10/22/2024 2:35 PM
Round 8

You would think that by this time in the draft, I would know which Dodgers team and which Athletics team I was going to take. But I was still changing my mind minutes before I was posting my choice.

Team #15
1961 Los Angeles Dodgers
I had four Dodgers teams in my draft center. The other three didn't get taken. The deciding factor in my decision is that I wanted to avoid the Maddux/Kersahw league, so I picked a season to get me into the NL. The obvious choices would be a Koufax/Drysdale/Snider season. The years 1960, 1963, 1965 and 1966 have already been selected. As I researched the 1961 roster, I see that was the only season that Turk Farrell played for LA. That gives me 300 innings of very strong long relief, which this team needs. The offense is led by Duke Snider, of course... But Gil Hodges and Frank Howard also have 40-HR seasons. Jim Gilliam and Maury Wills fills 2B/3B/SS. And Johnny Roseboro has A++ arm to curtail the Maury Wills SB threat that we'll be facing. Picking a team this late in the draft, it's unreasonable to expect anything more than .500 - but I am an optimist, so I will predict 82 wins.

Team #16
2000 Oakland Athletics
Once I missed out on 1999, I kind of put the A's at the end of the queue. I expect whichever season I ended up with would suck. So I waited till the very end to try and manipulate which division I would be in and maybe steal a spot into round 2 by winning a very weak division. I had some teams from the early 1970's queued up, but those seasons would end up in NL along with all the Lefty Gove / AL Simmons / Jimmie Fox teams. No thank you. I gambled a bit here. I thought the weakest teams in the AL were the post-2000 seasons, so I selected 2000 hoping at least one more person would select a post-2000 season which would push njbigwig's 1999 season into the AL Central - and that is exactly what happened when 3dayrotation picked 2009. So everything is set up to win this division with 78 wins. So what does this roster look like? The pitching is similar to the coveted 1999 team, with Tim Hudson, Kevin Appier, Jason Isringhausen, Doug Jones leading the way. The offense is not the same. Sure, I get Jason Giambi, Eric Chavez, Miguel Tejada. But instead of Tim Raines x 2 in the outfield, I get Matt Stairs & Ben Grieve. Instead of Tony Phillips at 2B, I get Randy Velarde. At least the defense is very good. Look at how late each of these teams got taken. Prediction: 79 wins, 1st place in the AL West.
.
22. schwarze - 2000
18. Jtpsops - 2001
17. fatboydad54 - 2006
23. 3dayrotation - 2009
10/22/2024 2:59 PM (edited)
Round 9

During the end-game, I thought it was going to take forever to fill the last few spots on the lesser franchises, but holy cow, things moved quickly. People were snapping up the last few spots. I had started building second teams for the Senators, Tigers, Phillies and Reds. I was able to post the Senators, but somebody beat me to the punch on those others teams (which is fine).

Team #17
1922 Washington Senators
With 15 teams selected so far, my 1970 Twins season was firmly sitting in the NL (only 8 teams selected before 1970). I started to worry that they'd end up with all the Walter Johnson teams. Eventually, 1967, 1965, 1923 and 1928 were taken, pushing 1970 into the AL (whew!). But as things were happening quickly Monday night, I realized that if I took a Senators season prior to 1923, the team would end up in the NL East and push 1925 into the NL Central (with juggernauts 1926 & 1927). Those seasons were the top 3 picks in this league So I quickly put together this 1922 team with basically six usable pitchers (Walter Johnson, Tom Zachary, George Mogridge). The offense is decent with Goose Goslin, Sam Rice, Clyde Milan, Bucky Harris, Roger Peckinpaugh, Donnie Bush & Joe Judge. Ironically, two more early teams were taken, pushing 1923 & 1924 into the AL Central and somehow ronthegenius' top pick (1927) ended up in the NL West, with many weaker teams. This also pushed my 1970 team away from the late 1960's teams and into the AL Central with 1987, 1988 & 2005. Not sure how I feel about that. Anyway, Prediction: 77 wins.
10/22/2024 3:21 PM (edited)
123 Next ▸
Twist & Clones Tournament - Writeup Topic

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2024 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.