Posted by bad_luck on 8/25/2014 11:59:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 8/25/2014 10:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/24/2014 3:03:00 PM (view original):
Tec asks, "where's the outrage when a white person gets shot? This is racism."

My point is that, from the perspective of the people who are outraged, this shooting was not justifiable according to the witness statements. It is different from other officer involved shootings.

Maybe those witnesses are wrong. It's certainly a possibility. But as long as their stories are credible, the sentiment that the cop murdered Brown will remain.

From what I've read, the "witness statements" are certainly not aligned with a single, consistent account of what may or may not have happened.

The real problem here is that, in general, there is typically a rush to judgement in cases like this whenever there's an opportunity to "blame whitey" in an alleged "crime" against a black person, and the libs and the media love to jump on the bandwagon.

It's crap like this which hinders race relations rather than help them.  The folks screaming "RACIST" the loudest often turn out to be the biggest racists themselves.

Feel free to refer back to the 80's with the Tawana Brawley incident for more details.

Again, there are plenty of police shootings. Many of them involve a white cop and a black suspect. There is rarely any outrage because most police shootings are justifiable.

So, when you ask, why is there outrage this time, the answer is not racism or a rush to blame whitey. The answer is that there is doubt that this shooting is justifiable.

Maybe the investigation will reveal that it was. Maybe it won't.

I know you're young,
And you are trying to win an argument,
But you can't possibly believe that.

BL is either (a) incredibly naive, (b) in complete denial, or (c) flat-out lying if he tells us that he doesn't believe that there are individuals and/or organizations who absolutely LOVE when something like this happens so that they can play the RACIST!!! card and turn it into a huge media incident.

Again, please refer to Reverend Al and the Tawana Brawley case.

It's not racism.

Blacks don't have anything.  Only whiteys do!


Or I was told that.  It isn't like Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Barack Obama, or Herman Cain have anything of relevance or own anything big.

Isn't there always someone who thinks a shooting was not justified?   

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/26/2014 1:00:00 PM (view original):
Isn't there always someone who thinks a shooting was not justified?   

Usually, it's the dead guy.

Well, he's not doing a lot of thinking after the shooting.   But I'm guessing friends/family always think it could have been handled differently. 

Posted by cobra on 8/25/2014 7:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/25/2014 11:59:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 8/25/2014 10:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/24/2014 3:03:00 PM (view original):
Tec asks, "where's the outrage when a white person gets shot? This is racism."

My point is that, from the perspective of the people who are outraged, this shooting was not justifiable according to the witness statements. It is different from other officer involved shootings.

Maybe those witnesses are wrong. It's certainly a possibility. But as long as their stories are credible, the sentiment that the cop murdered Brown will remain.

From what I've read, the "witness statements" are certainly not aligned with a single, consistent account of what may or may not have happened.

The real problem here is that, in general, there is typically a rush to judgement in cases like this whenever there's an opportunity to "blame whitey" in an alleged "crime" against a black person, and the libs and the media love to jump on the bandwagon.

It's crap like this which hinders race relations rather than help them.  The folks screaming "RACIST" the loudest often turn out to be the biggest racists themselves.

Feel free to refer back to the 80's with the Tawana Brawley incident for more details.

Again, there are plenty of police shootings. Many of them involve a white cop and a black suspect. There is rarely any outrage because most police shootings are justifiable.

So, when you ask, why is there outrage this time, the answer is not racism or a rush to blame whitey. The answer is that there is doubt that this shooting is justifiable.

Maybe the investigation will reveal that it was. Maybe it won't.

I know you're young,
And you are trying to win an argument,
But you can't possibly believe that.

Believe what?

Posted by bad_luck on 8/25/2014 11:59:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 8/25/2014 10:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/24/2014 3:03:00 PM (view original):
Tec asks, "where's the outrage when a white person gets shot? This is racism."

My point is that, from the perspective of the people who are outraged, this shooting was not justifiable according to the witness statements. It is different from other officer involved shootings.

Maybe those witnesses are wrong. It's certainly a possibility. But as long as their stories are credible, the sentiment that the cop murdered Brown will remain.

From what I've read, the "witness statements" are certainly not aligned with a single, consistent account of what may or may not have happened.

The real problem here is that, in general, there is typically a rush to judgement in cases like this whenever there's an opportunity to "blame whitey" in an alleged "crime" against a black person, and the libs and the media love to jump on the bandwagon.

It's crap like this which hinders race relations rather than help them.  The folks screaming "RACIST" the loudest often turn out to be the biggest racists themselves.

Feel free to refer back to the 80's with the Tawana Brawley incident for more details.

Again, there are plenty of police shootings. Many of them involve a white cop and a black suspect. There is rarely any outrage because most police shootings are justifiable.

So, when you ask, why is there outrage this time, the answer is not racism or a rush to blame whitey. The answer is that there is doubt that this shooting is justifiable.

Maybe the investigation will reveal that it was. Maybe it won't.

You are being somewhat naive here.

Any time there's an possible instance of "white taking advantage of black, based on prejudice," there's a great chance of the African-American community coming together to protect themselves.  They've been discriminated against and taken advantage of previously, so if it looks like it could be an instance of "black guy looks dangerous, shoot him" or "he shot him because he doesn't like black people" then this is a possibility.  You don't see the "white community" reacting to a similar situation in Utah because there's no feeling of "cop killed him because he was white, whites are always being discriminated against."  It doesn't make sense.

The irony, of course, is that in our quest to "see past race," this situation sets us back.  By only (over)reacting this way in this kind of situation, by many African-Americans not "protecting" all people and only looking after themselves, and creating a situation which invites more violence in your community, where you don't even know what happened? Makes everyone look worse.  

That said, I'm not black, and I'm relatively young, so I don't have a firm grasp on what many black people have seen in their lives.  I don't know what these people in Ferguson are feeling, so it's not entirely fair for me to judge.  But it's a sad situation, all the way around.

Posted by burnsy483 on 8/26/2014 4:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/25/2014 11:59:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 8/25/2014 10:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 8/24/2014 3:03:00 PM (view original):
Tec asks, "where's the outrage when a white person gets shot? This is racism."

My point is that, from the perspective of the people who are outraged, this shooting was not justifiable according to the witness statements. It is different from other officer involved shootings.

Maybe those witnesses are wrong. It's certainly a possibility. But as long as their stories are credible, the sentiment that the cop murdered Brown will remain.

From what I've read, the "witness statements" are certainly not aligned with a single, consistent account of what may or may not have happened.

The real problem here is that, in general, there is typically a rush to judgement in cases like this whenever there's an opportunity to "blame whitey" in an alleged "crime" against a black person, and the libs and the media love to jump on the bandwagon.

It's crap like this which hinders race relations rather than help them.  The folks screaming "RACIST" the loudest often turn out to be the biggest racists themselves.

Feel free to refer back to the 80's with the Tawana Brawley incident for more details.

Again, there are plenty of police shootings. Many of them involve a white cop and a black suspect. There is rarely any outrage because most police shootings are justifiable.

So, when you ask, why is there outrage this time, the answer is not racism or a rush to blame whitey. The answer is that there is doubt that this shooting is justifiable.

Maybe the investigation will reveal that it was. Maybe it won't.

You are being somewhat naive here.

Any time there's an possible instance of "white taking advantage of black, based on prejudice," there's a great chance of the African-American community coming together to protect themselves.  They've been discriminated against and taken advantage of previously, so if it looks like it could be an instance of "black guy looks dangerous, shoot him" or "he shot him because he doesn't like black people" then this is a possibility.  You don't see the "white community" reacting to a similar situation in Utah because there's no feeling of "cop killed him because he was white, whites are always being discriminated against."  It doesn't make sense.

The irony, of course, is that in our quest to "see past race," this situation sets us back.  By only (over)reacting this way in this kind of situation, by many African-Americans not "protecting" all people and only looking after themselves, and creating a situation which invites more violence in your community, where you don't even know what happened? Makes everyone look worse.  

That said, I'm not black, and I'm relatively young, so I don't have a firm grasp on what many black people have seen in their lives.  I don't know what these people in Ferguson are feeling, so it's not entirely fair for me to judge.  But it's a sad situation, all the way around.

I don't think I'm being naive, I think I'm answering a very specific question: 

"Why this time and not others?"

Because the specifics of this case are different.

That doesn't mean that:
- What the witnesses say happened, actually happened
- That people on both sides of the aisle aren't trying to leverage the situation for political gain

It's noble to say, "we should try to see past race," but naive to expect that race is not still a major issue. Look at something as relatively harmless as marijuana use among 18-25 year olds:




And then compare that to arrest rates:



Race relations in the country are not still bad because people insist on talking about race. Race relations in the country are bad because there is still a lot of racism.

We don't know the specifics of the case.

There IS a lot of racism. Which is why you're seeing the reaction you're seeing in Ferguson.

I think we're agreeing somewhat here.

Posted by burnsy483 on 8/27/2014 3:58:00 PM (view original):
We don't know the specifics of the case.

There IS a lot of racism. Which is why you're seeing the reaction you're seeing in Ferguson.

Sure there is but most of us doubt that it manifests itself in a cop with no history of misbehavior shooting an unarmed black man attempting to surrender.

And we wonder how "No justice, no peace" becomes a lootfest.