Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 7:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 6:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 6:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by DougOut on 12/5/2017 6:39:00 PM (view original):
The more I hear about the TRUMP TAX REDUCTION PLAN.....The more I like it.

I still think it's too weak and should have been more across the board equal. Democrats don't like that.

What dismayed me the most was to hear that some of the middle class would actually pay a tax increase. Small....but yet an increase.

Rich people get hit harder overall. It's not fair, but they won't be hurting. I would feel more sympathy if they brought in their off shore accounts to face the same capital gains tax we peons have to pay. Thanks Ireland.

But as to the people It will hurt......a little.......not anything near what the democrats would have you believe...I don't feel so bad.

It's mostly college grads with student loans to pay off. Highly educated and skilled workers making exceptional money. Mostly in Democrat states and Democrat counties like the ones that surround Washington D.C. They just bought houses and are paying off loans and are really just getting started. Some are more than a few years into the process, but they still haven't made the really big money yet because of their debt and interest payments. Doctors and lawyers and so forth.

But not all of them. IF they live in a RED state they'll be OK because the state income tax is so low. But in states like NY and CALIF. you're gonna take a beating because the state tax is so high. Under the old law, you were able to claim a large portion of the state income tax against your Federal tax. NO MORE.

SO...........FEDERAL taxes were higher across the board to compensate people in states with a high tax rate.

NOW they'll have to adjust. These people will be out a few thousand dollars every year unless states like CALIF and NY cut taxes. They can start by getting rid of government jobs and wasteful spending. Hear the Nancy Pelosi?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/what-republican-tax-plans-could-mean-for-you/?utm_term=.c47008b68ec2

People like me would average a $3,210 tax cut in 2019. I am cool with that!

Two things bother me most about the Trump tax plan

1) repealing the mandate is going to cause premiums to go up by a lot more than most people will ever get back in the tax cut

2) it isn't hard to do a tax cut that is popular. Do you not think the democrats would have been on board if Trump wanted to do a real middle class tax cut? They would have. But that's not what this is. This is an unpopular gift to the elites. Go ahead and flush any ideas you had of Trump being a populist. His isn't. He doesn't fight for the working class. He isn't trying to drain the swamp.

1) The mandate is stupid. If people don't want to pay for health insurance they should not have to. In fact... look at these numbers:

For the United States as a whole, 6,665,480 taxpayers paid a total of $3,079,255,000 in penalties. That’s an average of $461.97 per person. Of that group, 37.35 percent (2,489,490) had incomes of less than $25,000 per year. An additional 2,774,890 had incomes between $25,000 and $50,000.

In total, 78.98 percent of those who paid the penalty had income less than $50,000. If we repeal the mandate, these folks will get an immediate tax cut equal to the amount of the penalty they paid. Assuming each receives the average penalty, the total tax cut will be $2.4 billion. While that’s not enough to stimulate a $20 trillion economy, it’s a move in the right direction.

2) Democrats will never be on board.... In today's world there is NO bipartisanship... You must be delusional to think dems would ever support any major bill that Trump supports.

1) People in the <50k income range that pay the penalty, do so because they cannot afford insurance. There are better solutions to that problem than dropping the mandate. Those people still don't have coverage and, because healthy people are no longer required to buy coverage, rates are going to go up for everyone.

2) Dems absolutely would have been on board. A truly populist tax cut has bipartisan support. Don't be stupid.

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 7:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 6:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 6:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 6:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 6:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 6:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 6:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 6:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 6:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 5:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 5:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 5:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 4:18:00 PM (view original):
Buh bye conyers!!!

Interesting that you think an elected official should be removed from office if he has a history of sexual harassment allegations.

Using taxayer money to pay off settlements... I DEFINITELY have an issue with that.

That's how the rules were set up. It's wrong, but it's not like Conyers came up with that arrangement.

He should be removed from office. Moore shouldn't be eligible for the Senate. Trump should be removed from office.

There's no PROOF of any wrongdoing for Moore or Trump.

You libs love to label people guilty before they are even tried. Darren Wilson, The Freddie Gray cops, the Eric Garner cop, etc.

You've been wrong EVERY time.

Trump has paid sexual harassment settlements.

Moore's accusers are credible and their stories have been corroborated.

Really? Which sexual harassment settlement did he pay? I'll even allow you to go back 40 years.

Moore sounds like he couldn't even get to second base.... as a 30 year old. And again.... I don't care what a candidate did 40 years ago... That's before I was even born.

Trump settled with Jill Harth after she accused him of sexual harassment and breach of contract.

In April 1997, Jill Harth Houraney filed a $125,000,000 lawsuit against Trump for sexual harassment in 1993, claiming he "'groped' her under her dress and told her he wanted to make her his 'sex slave'". Harth voluntarily withdrew the suit when her husband settled a parallel case. Trump has called the allegations "meritless".

Um ok. You asked. I answered.

Harth withdrew the lawsuit because it was meritless so Trump NEVER paid a sexual harassment settlement.... Ok, we agree then.

She withdrew that suit because they settled another. It's semantics.

So we agree... Trump NEVER settled any sexual harassment lawsuits, EVER. It's facts.

Semantics. Someone accused him of sexual harassment and then dropped the suit when Trump gave her money.

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 7:15:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 12/5/2017 5:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 5:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 12/5/2017 4:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 3:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by strikeout26 on 12/5/2017 2:51:00 PM (view original):
He hasn't failed yet. He's actually looking pretty good with the upward trends in the economy. The left wrote him off as a failure before he had even taken office, which to be fair the right did the same with Obama.

He’s riding Obama’s economy.

Nope. You can't have 8 years of mediocrity and then when a new admin comes in and rolls back your damaging regulations still get credit for a boost after you've left. Obama's economy failed. As I've said, had Obama's economy progressed throughout his tenure then he could take credit, but it didn't.

You have blinders on.

We have given you facts that support mediocrity. I'm not going to repost them, but you are more than welcome to go back through the pages and find them. You have supplied nothing that is an indicator of economic growth under Obama that is anywhere close to other post-recession recoveries. I don't have blinders, I have facts.

Who is this "we" you're referring to?

As I said before, growth was slower for Obama than it was for Reagan because Reagan was able to spend significantly more (relative GDP) than Obama was.

Don;t be dumb and act like the growth we're seeing now has anything to do with Trump. I promise that if the economy was tanking, you and moy and all the other MAGA cult members would be running around rightfully blaming Obama because his last fiscal year just ended and the economy is not a Ferrari the starts and stops on a dime. The thing is a giant tanker that actually moves long after the input was made.

S&P over the last 5 years:



The growth isn't because of Trump.

Here's GDP over the last ten years:

Bumping this in case strikeout comes back.

FAKE CHART FROM MEDIA MATTERS

Economic growth (GDP)

3 of 10

One of the biggest criticisms of Obama's economy is that growth has been sluggish. Historically, the U.S. economy has expanded 3% or more a year, on average.

The Great Recession was a meat-cleaver on the economy. Since then, the U.S. has struggled to grow at much more than 2% a year under President Obama.

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 6:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 6:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 6:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 5:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 5:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 5:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 4:18:00 PM (view original):
Buh bye conyers!!!

Interesting that you think an elected official should be removed from office if he has a history of sexual harassment allegations.

Using taxayer money to pay off settlements... I DEFINITELY have an issue with that.

That's how the rules were set up. It's wrong, but it's not like Conyers came up with that arrangement.

He should be removed from office. Moore shouldn't be eligible for the Senate. Trump should be removed from office.

There's no PROOF of any wrongdoing for Moore or Trump.

You libs love to label people guilty before they are even tried. Darren Wilson, The Freddie Gray cops, the Eric Garner cop, etc.

You've been wrong EVERY time.

Trump has paid sexual harassment settlements.

Moore's accusers are credible and their stories have been corroborated.

Really? Which sexual harassment settlement did he pay? I'll even allow you to go back 40 years.

Moore sounds like he couldn't even get to second base.... as a 30 year old. And again.... I don't care what a candidate did 40 years ago... That's before I was even born.

so, just because you weren't born, its okay that Moore was allegedly going after underage girls? And because he "couldn't even get to second base" it was no big deal? I bet you'd care if it was a democrat!

The whole reason for the economic collapse is the democrat party.

Barney Frank and Chris Dodd and Nancy Pelosi. Goes back to Carter actually.

Forced banks to loan money to people who couldn't pay it back.

Posted by wylie715 on 12/5/2017 7:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 6:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 6:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 6:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 5:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 5:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 5:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 4:18:00 PM (view original):
Buh bye conyers!!!

Interesting that you think an elected official should be removed from office if he has a history of sexual harassment allegations.

Using taxayer money to pay off settlements... I DEFINITELY have an issue with that.

That's how the rules were set up. It's wrong, but it's not like Conyers came up with that arrangement.

He should be removed from office. Moore shouldn't be eligible for the Senate. Trump should be removed from office.

There's no PROOF of any wrongdoing for Moore or Trump.

You libs love to label people guilty before they are even tried. Darren Wilson, The Freddie Gray cops, the Eric Garner cop, etc.

You've been wrong EVERY time.

Trump has paid sexual harassment settlements.

Moore's accusers are credible and their stories have been corroborated.

Really? Which sexual harassment settlement did he pay? I'll even allow you to go back 40 years.

Moore sounds like he couldn't even get to second base.... as a 30 year old. And again.... I don't care what a candidate did 40 years ago... That's before I was even born.

so, just because you weren't born, its okay that Moore was allegedly going after underage girls? And because he "couldn't even get to second base" it was no big deal? I bet you'd care if it was a democrat!

yeah, this is some bad-faith **** from moy. He doesn't care because it's a Republican and the majority could be compromised.

A 30 year old tried to get to second base with a 14 year old. That's horrendous. Even if it was 40 years ago.

Posted by DougOut on 12/5/2017 7:23:00 PM (view original):
The whole reason for the economic collapse is the democrat party.

Barney Frank and Chris Dodd and Nancy Pelosi. Goes back to Carter actually.

Forced banks to loan money to people who couldn't pay it back.

and I suppose the democrats forced people to take out those loans too?

Posted by wylie715 on 12/5/2017 7:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by DougOut on 12/5/2017 7:23:00 PM (view original):
The whole reason for the economic collapse is the democrat party.

Barney Frank and Chris Dodd and Nancy Pelosi. Goes back to Carter actually.

Forced banks to loan money to people who couldn't pay it back.

and I suppose the democrats forced people to take out those loans too?

Do yourself a favor and ignore doug.

And, if we're going to discuss what caused the recession, the only thing that "forced" banks to give loans to people that couldn't afford those loans was capitalism.

Posted by wylie715 on 12/5/2017 7:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by DougOut on 12/5/2017 7:23:00 PM (view original):
The whole reason for the economic collapse is the democrat party.

Barney Frank and Chris Dodd and Nancy Pelosi. Goes back to Carter actually.

Forced banks to loan money to people who couldn't pay it back.

and I suppose the democrats forced people to take out those loans too?

Of course not. That's silly. The people did it because they could.

The Banks did it because they had to. Or else.

And when the loans began to default, the banks LEGALLY wrote notes and bundled them to other investors.

We think of it as a Ponzi scheme.

I distinctly remember, and can reproduce reports and media from that time, where President Bush called the fiscal practices of FREDDIE and FANNIE into question.

The Democrats, lead by FRANK and DODD denied any problems and declared these notes strong and solvent. Conyers cried RACISM and MAXINE WATERS tripped the light fantastic down the walkway of political fashion in a media frenzy. Democrats ran the thing. They invented it. You funded it.

The establishment Republicans crawled back into their shell.

The paper got passed off to the last guy in line. There was no one to sell it to and it was worthless.

There's a lesson. IF YOU MAKE LAWS for votes or interfere when you don't know what you're doing (Like the current punitive and destructive DOT trucking laws about to go into effect) it will come back to bite you.

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 7:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by wylie715 on 12/5/2017 7:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by DougOut on 12/5/2017 7:23:00 PM (view original):
The whole reason for the economic collapse is the democrat party.

Barney Frank and Chris Dodd and Nancy Pelosi. Goes back to Carter actually.

Forced banks to loan money to people who couldn't pay it back.

and I suppose the democrats forced people to take out those loans too?

Do yourself a favor and ignore doug.

You're not the boss of anybody. Let the kid go.

I don't tell people not to talk to you.

You're mean.

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 7:36:00 PM (view original):
And, if we're going to discuss what caused the recession, the only thing that "forced" banks to give loans to people that couldn't afford those loans was capitalism.

Capitalism wasn't in session at the time. Nor has it ever been. Congress was.

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 7:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 7:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 12/5/2017 6:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 12/5/2017 6:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by DougOut on 12/5/2017 6:39:00 PM (view original):
The more I hear about the TRUMP TAX REDUCTION PLAN.....The more I like it.

I still think it's too weak and should have been more across the board equal. Democrats don't like that.

What dismayed me the most was to hear that some of the middle class would actually pay a tax increase. Small....but yet an increase.

Rich people get hit harder overall. It's not fair, but they won't be hurting. I would feel more sympathy if they brought in their off shore accounts to face the same capital gains tax we peons have to pay. Thanks Ireland.

But as to the people It will hurt......a little.......not anything near what the democrats would have you believe...I don't feel so bad.

It's mostly college grads with student loans to pay off. Highly educated and skilled workers making exceptional money. Mostly in Democrat states and Democrat counties like the ones that surround Washington D.C. They just bought houses and are paying off loans and are really just getting started. Some are more than a few years into the process, but they still haven't made the really big money yet because of their debt and interest payments. Doctors and lawyers and so forth.

But not all of them. IF they live in a RED state they'll be OK because the state income tax is so low. But in states like NY and CALIF. you're gonna take a beating because the state tax is so high. Under the old law, you were able to claim a large portion of the state income tax against your Federal tax. NO MORE.

SO...........FEDERAL taxes were higher across the board to compensate people in states with a high tax rate.

NOW they'll have to adjust. These people will be out a few thousand dollars every year unless states like CALIF and NY cut taxes. They can start by getting rid of government jobs and wasteful spending. Hear the Nancy Pelosi?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/what-republican-tax-plans-could-mean-for-you/?utm_term=.c47008b68ec2

People like me would average a $3,210 tax cut in 2019. I am cool with that!

Two things bother me most about the Trump tax plan

1) repealing the mandate is going to cause premiums to go up by a lot more than most people will ever get back in the tax cut

2) it isn't hard to do a tax cut that is popular. Do you not think the democrats would have been on board if Trump wanted to do a real middle class tax cut? They would have. But that's not what this is. This is an unpopular gift to the elites. Go ahead and flush any ideas you had of Trump being a populist. His isn't. He doesn't fight for the working class. He isn't trying to drain the swamp.

1) The mandate is stupid. If people don't want to pay for health insurance they should not have to. In fact... look at these numbers:

For the United States as a whole, 6,665,480 taxpayers paid a total of $3,079,255,000 in penalties. That’s an average of $461.97 per person. Of that group, 37.35 percent (2,489,490) had incomes of less than $25,000 per year. An additional 2,774,890 had incomes between $25,000 and $50,000.

In total, 78.98 percent of those who paid the penalty had income less than $50,000. If we repeal the mandate, these folks will get an immediate tax cut equal to the amount of the penalty they paid. Assuming each receives the average penalty, the total tax cut will be $2.4 billion. While that’s not enough to stimulate a $20 trillion economy, it’s a move in the right direction.

2) Democrats will never be on board.... In today's world there is NO bipartisanship... You must be delusional to think dems would ever support any major bill that Trump supports.

1) People in the <50k income range that pay the penalty, do so because they cannot afford insurance. There are better solutions to that problem than dropping the mandate. Those people still don't have coverage and, because healthy people are no longer required to buy coverage, rates are going to go up for everyone.

2) Dems absolutely would have been on board. A truly populist tax cut has bipartisan support. Don't be stupid.

1) THEY ARE THE POOR PAYING THE PENALTY.... and you are worried about premiums going up? I thought you libs actually cared about the POOR. Dropping the mandate is a TAX BREAK for 6 million poor people.

2) BULLSHIT. Trump could have a bill to cure cancer and the dems wouldn't hesitate to vote strictly on party lines. Republicans are the same way on democrat issues, have you not watched the last 9 years of US politics?