Posted by samuelyork93 on 4/12/2020 12:32:00 AM (view original):
To be honest I am not a fan of a completely random draft every year. I am worried about what was mentioned above and someone getting the #1 pick 2 seasons in a row or perhaps even worse the last pick 2 seasons in a row. It would feel like if you had a bad season you get nothing for it, no "silver lining", or more importantly no incentive to bring your team back the next season.

I would suggest a lottery where everyone has a chance at the number 1 pick but the worse records have the better chance of getting it. I would also have a minimum win requirement to have the best odds.

Agreed

What if we did a version of the Wheel mentioned https://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-nbas-possible-solution-for-tanking-good-bye-to-the-lottery-hello-to-the-wheel/

basically, lets give whomever had the 24th pick in this draft the first pick next year and then go from there. So draft picks are set for every season and it’s neither random nor unfair and does not incentivize tanking.

I LOVE the totally random Draft. It was one of the reasons I was drawn to join this League. It will help make sure people don't tank. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do NOT change it.

Agree Draft order should be ABB or ABBB. Maybe that would even help minimize the concerns above.

Posted by all3 on 4/12/2020 10:57:00 AM (view original):
I LOVE the totally random Draft. It was one of the reasons I was drawn to join this League. It will help make sure people don't tank. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do NOT change it.

I’m okay with not having a record based draft so tanking doesn’t ever happen, but I think we need to curb extreme luck from season to season.

maybe top 5 are random every year and remaining picks are inverse order of previous year draft so if you pick 24th in a draft, the next year you won’t pick lower than 6th.

And if you land top 5 in a draft, you are ineligible for a top 5 pick for 1 season?

So if you landed 1st one year you’d probably get 24th next year and then 6th next year then it’d even out from there.

And vice versa, if you got 24th, then you’d pick top 6 and then move down the next year and so on.

Posted by all3 on 4/12/2020 10:59:00 AM (view original):
I LOVE the totally random Draft. It was one of the reasons I was drawn to join this League. It will help make sure people don't tank. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do NOT change it.

Agree Draft order should be ABB or ABBB. Maybe that would even help minimize the concerns above.

I’m also a big fan of the random draft. Having said that, I would love to discuss safeguards. No consecutive 1st overall, ABBB, etc

Agree. We can prevent tanking while also preventing consecutive back to back 1 picks. Also ABB makes a lot of sense so that higher picks don’t have TOO big of an advantage.

Posted by jhsukow on 4/12/2020 11:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 4/12/2020 10:59:00 AM (view original):
I LOVE the totally random Draft. It was one of the reasons I was drawn to join this League. It will help make sure people don't tank. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do NOT change it.

Agree Draft order should be ABB or ABBB. Maybe that would even help minimize the concerns above.

I’m also a big fan of the random draft. Having said that, I would love to discuss safeguards. No consecutive 1st overall, ABBB, etc

I am inclined to stick with totally random determination of the 24 draft slots -
Many of the owners who have been in several progressives attest to the fact that
TANKING to get good picks is a MAJOR issue. I am open to 'minor tweaks' in future discussions.

The SNAKE format of future drafts is a potential issue

ABB I better than ABA -

landing the top spot is VALUABLE, and
one of the top slots should not benefit from also getting the top spots in the third

Im more concerned with the 4th round (which should be rare)
B as well??? meaning the #24 owner of the first round would then get the #1 (25th..etc)
in 2nd 3rd AND 4th...

comments?

I’m fine with non-records based rules but still think you have to keep safeguards from teams landing top 5-10 picks in consecutive drafts while someone else gets stuck with picks 17 and 24.

If one team dominates through sheer luck, people will quit.

Posted by Uofa2 on 4/12/2020 1:13:00 AM (view original):

Posted by samuelyork93 on 4/12/2020 12:32:00 AM (view original):
To be honest I am not a fan of a completely random draft every year. I am worried about what was mentioned above and someone getting the #1 pick 2 seasons in a row or perhaps even worse the last pick 2 seasons in a row. It would feel like if you had a bad season you get nothing for it, no "silver lining", or more importantly no incentive to bring your team back the next season.

I would suggest a lottery where everyone has a chance at the number 1 pick but the worse records have the better chance of getting it. I would also have a minimum win requirement to have the best odds.

Agreed

i totally agree with this sentiment
i think a weighted lottery is the way to go and proposed one.

Come on guys. We've all played sports for years, and we know what a huge impact luck has in real life, so why shouldn't it have an impact in WIS? Has anyone ever played in another Progressive/Regressive where the #1 pick was banned two years in a row, or where 2 back-to-back picks in the 20s was not allowed?

That said, IF the MAJORITY wants something in place, how about no Top 5 picks and no picks in the 20s in back-to-back drafts? If the random order dictates that, the ower(s) effected move to 6 (7,8,...) and 19 (18,17,...).

Posted by all3 on 4/12/2020 3:13:00 PM (view original):
Come on guys. We've all played sports for years, and we know what a huge impact luck has in real life, so why shouldn't it have an impact in WIS? Has anyone ever played in another Progressive/Regressive where the #1 pick was banned two years in a row, or where 2 back-to-back picks in the 20s was not allowed?

That said, IF the MAJORITY wants something in place, how about no Top 5 picks and no picks in the 20s in back-to-back drafts? If the random order dictates that, the ower(s) effected move to 6 (7,8,...) and 19 (18,17,...).

Because luck can be manipulated here for starters. Someone has to do the draft and there's no way to guarantee that it's actually random. There's a difference between completely "random" drafts and weighted drafts. I've had bad experiences here; the last thing I want to see is more opportunities for things like that to happen. Never should it be possible to win the title and get the #1 pick the next season. You're going to have turnover beyond your wildest dreams when that happens or bad teams get screwed constantly. I don't know why any league would want to increase the odds of turnover. We already lost an owner because of a mistake he made and that was in the 4th round of the initial draft...wait to see what happens when people get screwed or worse one team gets consistently lucky.

Owners are supposed to be planning on having good teams every season, so your turnover argument holds no water. If their team is bad, it's because of poor planning on their part as much as anything.

Ever check-out the URAPP Progressive? An owner can lose Wilt and Lebron in the same season, yet still pick #24, or lose 2 "nobodies" and pick first. Almost everything is random and left to luck, yet there isn't a big turnover.

If you don't trust a Commish to run a fair League, then don't get in his League.

Posted by all3 on 4/12/2020 3:54:00 PM (view original):
Owners are supposed to be planning on having good teams every season, so your turnover argument holds no water. If their team is bad, it's because of poor planning on their part as much as anything.

Ever check-out the URAPP Progressive? An owner can lose Wilt and Lebron in the same season, yet still pick #24, or lose 2 "nobodies" and pick first. Almost everything is random and left to luck, yet there isn't a big turnover.

If you don't trust a Commish to run a fair League, then don't get in his League.

Wrong. Beyond wrong. Planning on having a good team is one thing; getting lucky enough to have one is another. All the plans in the world go out the door if you pick in the bottom 1/2 or 1/3 two years in a row. Elite talent wins in WIS...basketball is no different. You can have a good team, but if you don't land an elite piece, you're not winning. It really is that simple.

Posted by slashtc on 4/12/2020 3:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 4/12/2020 3:13:00 PM (view original):
Come on guys. We've all played sports for years, and we know what a huge impact luck has in real life, so why shouldn't it have an impact in WIS? Has anyone ever played in another Progressive/Regressive where the #1 pick was banned two years in a row, or where 2 back-to-back picks in the 20s was not allowed?

That said, IF the MAJORITY wants something in place, how about no Top 5 picks and no picks in the 20s in back-to-back drafts? If the random order dictates that, the ower(s) effected move to 6 (7,8,...) and 19 (18,17,...).

Because luck can be manipulated here for starters. Someone has to do the draft and there's no way to guarantee that it's actually random. There's a difference between completely "random" drafts and weighted drafts. I've had bad experiences here; the last thing I want to see is more opportunities for things like that to happen. Never should it be possible to win the title and get the #1 pick the next season. You're going to have turnover beyond your wildest dreams when that happens or bad teams get screwed constantly. I don't know why any league would want to increase the odds of turnover. We already lost an owner because of a mistake he made and that was in the 4th round of the initial draft...wait to see what happens when people get screwed or worse one team gets consistently lucky.

Please explain to me how the draft order for this draft was not completely random.

Posted by slashtc on 4/12/2020 4:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 4/12/2020 3:54:00 PM (view original):
Owners are supposed to be planning on having good teams every season, so your turnover argument holds no water. If their team is bad, it's because of poor planning on their part as much as anything.

Ever check-out the URAPP Progressive? An owner can lose Wilt and Lebron in the same season, yet still pick #24, or lose 2 "nobodies" and pick first. Almost everything is random and left to luck, yet there isn't a big turnover.

If you don't trust a Commish to run a fair League, then don't get in his League.

Wrong. Beyond wrong. Planning on having a good team is one thing; getting lucky enough to have one is another. All the plans in the world go out the door if you pick in the bottom 1/2 or 1/3 two years in a row. Elite talent wins in WIS...basketball is no different. You can have a good team, but if you don't land an elite piece, you're not winning. It really is that simple.

so true talent does trump and without trades the only way to upgrade your club is through the draft.