TRUMP: Best President ever Topic

only russian
12/17/2017 11:43 PM
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Posted by cccp1014 on 12/18/2017 8:26:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tangplay on 12/17/2017 8:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by cccp1014 on 12/17/2017 7:26:00 PM (view original):
So you don't believe that there are "bad" people out there. Everyone is inherently good?

OK
Ummmm... read what I said. That had nothing to do with what I said. Can you read?
  1. You are against the ban.
  2. You believe that immigrants from Muslim countries are radical (50%).
  3. You agree that we have no idea how to screen these persons.
  4. You still want to allow them to come to the US
  5. You must then believe that all those people are inherently good.
  6. You want a two state solution with Israel and Palestine.
  7. You agree that Fatah and Hamas are terror regimes and the only regimes the Palestinian residents voted for.
  8. You agree that both Fatah and Hamas want to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth.
  9. You agree that there are 53 mostly Muslim countries and ONE mostly Jewish country.
  10. You still want a two state solution with a country that doesn't recognize the ONLY Jewish state and wants all the Jews to go there so that it can kill them all in one fell swoop.
You sir, are a moron.
You act like most muslims are terrorists. It is simply not true. Palestine is not a terror state IMO, they are a democracy. If Palestine is a terror state, so is Saudi Arabia. If Israel agreed to two-state, they would not be wiped off the face of the earth.
12/18/2017 11:17 AM
much as I hate to agree with the commie, I'm not sure Palestine would ever agree to a 2 state solution.
12/18/2017 12:22 PM
LOL

Palestine and KSA are democracies. LMAO!!!

You mean autocracies.

Saudi Arabia is not an electoral democracy. The 1992 Basic Law declares that the Koran and the Sunna (the guidance set by the deeds and sayings of the prophet Muhammad) are the country's constitution. The cabinet, which is appointed by the king, passes legislation that becomes law once ratified by royal decree.

12/18/2017 1:08 PM
Posted by wylie715 on 12/18/2017 12:22:00 PM (view original):
much as I hate to agree with the commie, I'm not sure Palestine would ever agree to a 2 state solution.
wylie, don't waste your time trying to educate this person.
12/18/2017 1:08 PM
I am not trying to play favorites with Palestine and Israel. I PREFER ISRAEL. It's not about, 'Israel should agree to two-state", it's 'both should agree to two-state'
12/18/2017 4:59 PM
You want them to agree to a two state solution with:
  • A government run by internationally recognized terror groups who want to not only wipe out Israel but every Jewish person.
  • A state where apostasy is punishable by death.
  • Where Hamas takes enemies of the state, attaches them to motorcycles and drags them through the streets.
  • A place where women are treated as 2nd class citizens and gays are thrown off roof tops.

Thank you for your input. Please go away now.
12/19/2017 8:51 AM
Boris. You have made that point quite well. I (for one) get it. There are bad people amongst the folks who claim "Palestine".............
I'm sure there are. There are bad people amongst us Americans...... here within our borders. Some who practice political ideologies with which we'd both agree are intolerable. There are also good families here........ just trying to eke out a pleasant lifetime.

Do you think there may be some regular "families" amongst them Palestinians who don't subscribe to the ideologies of Hamas and Fatah??
Whatever that may be.............
12/19/2017 9:25 AM
Posted by laramiebob on 12/19/2017 9:25:00 AM (view original):
Boris. You have made that point quite well. I (for one) get it. There are bad people amongst the folks who claim "Palestine".............
I'm sure there are. There are bad people amongst us Americans...... here within our borders. Some who practice political ideologies with which we'd both agree are intolerable. There are also good families here........ just trying to eke out a pleasant lifetime.

Do you think there may be some regular "families" amongst them Palestinians who don't subscribe to the ideologies of Hamas and Fatah??
Whatever that may be.............
I honestly do not know. Maybe. It is a tricky situation because their Koran is their constitution. Imagine if the Bible were our constitution. They are taught from a very young age to hate Israel and the West. They are also taught that as I mentioned women are 2nd class citizens, gays should be killed and that Israel is a vile place that should be destroyed.

So while there may be some good families, they are outnumbered and certainly out voiced by the ones that are not good. While to your point there a bad people in America, I believe the good for the most part greatly outnumber the bad.
12/19/2017 10:30 AM
Posted by cccp1014 on 12/19/2017 10:30:00 AM (view original):
Posted by laramiebob on 12/19/2017 9:25:00 AM (view original):
Boris. You have made that point quite well. I (for one) get it. There are bad people amongst the folks who claim "Palestine".............
I'm sure there are. There are bad people amongst us Americans...... here within our borders. Some who practice political ideologies with which we'd both agree are intolerable. There are also good families here........ just trying to eke out a pleasant lifetime.

Do you think there may be some regular "families" amongst them Palestinians who don't subscribe to the ideologies of Hamas and Fatah??
Whatever that may be.............
I honestly do not know. Maybe. It is a tricky situation because their Koran is their constitution. Imagine if the Bible were our constitution. They are taught from a very young age to hate Israel and the West. They are also taught that as I mentioned women are 2nd class citizens, gays should be killed and that Israel is a vile place that should be destroyed.

So while there may be some good families, they are outnumbered and certainly out voiced by the ones that are not good. While to your point there a bad people in America, I believe the good for the most part greatly outnumber the bad.
The only way to not teach them that is too GET INVOLVED AND CHANGE THINGS.

Boris, taking Palestine over with Israel is only going to make them more upset.
12/19/2017 10:34 AM
The Koran supports the concepts of "hatred", "discrimination", "murder", and "destruction of the State of Israel" and claims that Israel is a "vile place"????

In the Koran?? My family's roots extend to the Missouri Ozarks and to that one Boris I gotta say "Show Me!"

Find me a passage from the Koran that remotely supports any of that............ If you can.
You might convert me, who knows?
12/19/2017 10:59 AM
Posted by laramiebob on 12/19/2017 10:59:00 AM (view original):
The Koran supports the concepts of "hatred", "discrimination", "murder", and "destruction of the State of Israel" and claims that Israel is a "vile place"????

In the Koran?? My family's roots extend to the Missouri Ozarks and to that one Boris I gotta say "Show Me!"

Find me a passage from the Koran that remotely supports any of that............ If you can.
You might convert me, who knows?
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

The Quran:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were notunder attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The word used instead, "fitna", can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief.

Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers.

Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward " This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is this Arabic word (mujahiduna) used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad, which would not make sense if it meant an internal struggle). According to the verse, Allah will allow the disabled into Paradise, but will provide a larger reward to those who are able to kill others in his cause.

Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.

Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals."

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."

Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..."

Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."

Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert.

Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people."Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims.

Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam "superior over all religions." This chapter was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths.


Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.

Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians).

Quran (4:11) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" (see also verse 4:176). In Islam, sexism is mathematically established.

Anti Women

Quran (2:282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women." Muslim apologists offer creative explanations to explain why Allah felt that a man's testimony in court should be valued twice as highly as a woman's, but studies consistently show that women are actually less likely to tell lies than men, meaning that they make more reliable witnesses.

Quran (2:228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"

Quran (5:6) - "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it" Men are to rub dirt on their hands, if there is no water to purify them, following casual contact with a woman (such as shaking hands).


12/19/2017 2:26 PM (edited)
Posted by tangplay on 12/19/2017 10:34:00 AM (view original):
Posted by cccp1014 on 12/19/2017 10:30:00 AM (view original):
Posted by laramiebob on 12/19/2017 9:25:00 AM (view original):
Boris. You have made that point quite well. I (for one) get it. There are bad people amongst the folks who claim "Palestine".............
I'm sure there are. There are bad people amongst us Americans...... here within our borders. Some who practice political ideologies with which we'd both agree are intolerable. There are also good families here........ just trying to eke out a pleasant lifetime.

Do you think there may be some regular "families" amongst them Palestinians who don't subscribe to the ideologies of Hamas and Fatah??
Whatever that may be.............
I honestly do not know. Maybe. It is a tricky situation because their Koran is their constitution. Imagine if the Bible were our constitution. They are taught from a very young age to hate Israel and the West. They are also taught that as I mentioned women are 2nd class citizens, gays should be killed and that Israel is a vile place that should be destroyed.

So while there may be some good families, they are outnumbered and certainly out voiced by the ones that are not good. While to your point there a bad people in America, I believe the good for the most part greatly outnumber the bad.
The only way to not teach them that is too GET INVOLVED AND CHANGE THINGS.

Boris, taking Palestine over with Israel is only going to make them more upset.
MORE? How much more? They want to wipe me and my people off the face of the Earth. Explain how there is a "more".
12/19/2017 2:24 PM
well shoot Boris. If folks actually believe that nonsense then what are we to do? Exterminate them?? We've tried that before. It's ugly and pretty highly immoral for thinking peoples. The LSD folks (Mormons) believe in a prophet named Joseph Smith. The Mormons had their own "hit" squads............ folks charged with killing in the name of God (or more precisely...... in defense of the faith!). You have convinced me (IF your Quran post/translation are accurate!) that Muhammad was a schmuck. Much like Joseph Smith..........who I'm convinced was nothing but a con man with a very active libido who had a propensity for young women..........who (apparently) a fair share of found him attractive somehow. But I'm a bit of a cynic. I'm quite sure that monks get hard-ons over young girls just like me and you. Ask any catholic priest........... well better not, better safe than sorry. But I digress..........

My point is....... if I even have a relevant response to your Quran passages.......... is that MOST folks don't take everything in the Bible literally, either. Heck, I'd imagine someone could put up a post of offensive Bible scriptures twice as long as yourn........... the point being that those that choose to follow 1000 year old texts to the letter (after myriad translations) even when the text violates common decency and the basic premise of God (God is Love, remember!) are crazy zealots who be the problem......... not the general belief in the Faith. I'm presuming (of course) that the belief (and walk within!) in that Faith brings peace and joy to the follower, otherwise why bother, right? For ME, I've found all the "faiths" (dogmas) I know much about to be empty cups. Nothing within them to drink that fuels me, or gives me peace. But, the alternative to believing that faith brings some folks some sort of "goodness" is to believe that religion is just God's way to make humans destroy one another over who has the better way to worship............who? God?
Makes no sense, does it? God isn't that nuts is She? He doesn't make mistakes, right? It's crazy to just think the "sheep", designed as believers, from Both sides are just gonna end up as the participants in some Global religious war (ArmaGeddon, right?) that will destroy ALL! All humanity. Only what left?? Some sort of remaining spirits from the victorious side? Let's say the Jews win Boris. Some version of your family remains afterwards.........congrats in that case I guess......... but I suspect I'll really feel that you're welcome to what's left......... I (likely) won't want it..........
12/19/2017 3:06 PM
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