It was only a matter of time... Topic

monkee
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Quote: Originally Posted By tnbishop on 12/06/2009
I'm not really concerned with games or even individual seasons. This seems consistent throughout every season.
of course because we're talking about forces that would do that

what Im saying is that

(and every game (that makes up), every season will be subject to this)

game results happen at a level above boxscore outputs

so when you talk about the stuff you are talking about you need to recognize this:

boxscore distro is cosmetic

12/6/2009 9:54 PM
badja
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It's not so much each player's numbers, but team numbers vs. other teams.

In the prev sim I had a Kidd-Big Ben-Moses team that was about +15 reb for the season. My current team of 114% dreb is barely +5 dreb for the season. It is very rare to have a +20 game anymore, even if you have 35% more rebounding than your opponent.

In other words, you don't get the stats that you pay for (big surprise).
12/10/2009 12:35 PM
ncmusician_7
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Quote: Originally Posted By badja on 12/10/2009It's not so much each player's numbers, but team numbers vs. other teams.

(1) In the prev sim I had a Kidd-Big Ben-Moses team that was about +15 reb for the season. My current team of 114% dreb is barely +5 dreb for the season. It is very rare to have a +20 game anymore, even if you have 35% more rebounding than your opponent.

(2) In other words, you don't get the stats that you pay for (big surprise)
(1) Which team of urs has a cumulative 114% Dreb among the starters?

(2) You don't get good "bang for ur buck" with regards to Dreb because you already have an advantage there.
12/10/2009 4:43 PM
badja
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http://www.whatifsports.com/nba-l/stats.asp?teamid=281925

What does #2 mean? Yes I have a slight advantage, but I should have a bigger advantage.
12/10/2009 6:03 PM
monkee
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Quote: Originally Posted By badja on 12/10/2009



It's not so much each player's numbers, but team numbers vs. other teams.

well that's my point - individual players numbers in the boxscore are distributed in a more or less cosmetic fashion and in many cases have very little bearing on nor express properly the forces that shaped the game itself

In the prev sim I had a Kidd-Big Ben-Moses team that was about +15 reb for the season. My current team of 114% dreb is barely +5 dreb for the season. It is very rare to have a +20 game anymore, even if you have 35% more rebounding than your opponent.

In other words, you don't get the stats that you pay for (big surprise).

maybe but that's a whole different kettle of fish than what I was talking about (which it seems like you get the difference so I wont belabor it)
12/10/2009 6:07 PM
ncmusician_7
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Quote: Originally Posted By badja on 12/10/2009
What does #2 mean? Yes I have a slight advantage, but I should have a bigger advantage.
Here is a simplified example: Team A has 40% Oreb and Team B has 100% Dreb. Let's say Team A misses 50 shots in a game, Team B will get 35.7 rebounds to Team A's 14.3 rebounds (over the long term). If you increase Team B's Dreb to 120%, Team B will get 37.5 rebounds (only 1.8 more even though you increased the Dreb by 20%). With normally drafted teams, a team will have a higher Dreb% than their opponents Oreb% (which is what I meant by "already have an advantage there").
12/10/2009 6:27 PM
badja
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Yeah, I also agree that winning is the point anyway, so stats are not all that important.

My gripe is that a great D combined with great dreb should equal a LOT of rebounds. That was the case in the past anyway.

12/10/2009 6:30 PM
badja
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12/10/2009 6:32 PM
monkee
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Quote: Originally Posted By badja on 12/10/2009



Yeah, I also agree that winning is the point anyway, so stats are not all that important.

it's not that they arent important but that you look at the right ones in the right ways - differential is the sim version of real world result (like your rebound differential expample - who cares how many rpg any one guy has as long as your team has the ## differential advantage?)

My gripe is that a great D combined with great dreb should equal a LOT of rebounds. That was the case in the past anyway.

preaching to somebody's choir
12/10/2009 6:51 PM
ashamael
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I don't think the advanced %s are appropriate for all things - especially when you have to fabricate numbers for 25 years worth of players.

for example - to paraphrase monkee - a guy with 2.1% blk wasn't necessarily a good shot blocker. It just means the rest of his team sucked at it. Bill Russell was one of the all-time greats (practically invented the damn thing), but his percentages are dismal (most seasons sub 4%).
12/11/2009 8:32 PM
RamBeast
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It's only one OL season, but I managed to beat Peja/Nash/Allen/Worm/Moses back-to-back in the semis and the finals.... Champagne and chocolate chips to all... :-)
12/16/2009 11:42 AM
ashamael
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yeah man, I was excited to see you take home the crown.
12/16/2009 4:13 PM
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