Posted by moy23 on 6/6/2015 6:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/5/2015 7:24:00 PM (view original):
But if you're talking about state to state competition, sure, lower taxes equal lower costs, so it makes sense for a business to move. But that doesn't create MORE jobs, it just takes existing jobs in one location (Illinois) and moves them to another location.

Did these 29,500 Honda jobs simply move here from Japan (I.e. Japanese workers moving to the US) or were they created here in the USA?

http://www.hondainamerica.com/employment

Great. Demand in the US for Honda products meant employing US workers made sense. What's your point?

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2015 7:17:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 6/6/2015 6:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/5/2015 7:24:00 PM (view original):
But if you're talking about state to state competition, sure, lower taxes equal lower costs, so it makes sense for a business to move. But that doesn't create MORE jobs, it just takes existing jobs in one location (Illinois) and moves them to another location.

Did these 29,500 Honda jobs simply move here from Japan (I.e. Japanese workers moving to the US) or were they created here in the USA?

http://www.hondainamerica.com/employment

Great. Demand in the US for Honda products meant employing US workers made sense. What's your point?

Why specifically did employing US workers 'make sense' for honda? They can make their products anywhere and they can just ship them to the US so what must have 'made sense' for them to CREATE US jobs to produce their products here?

Maybe the shipping cost was too much.

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2015 8:44:00 PM (view original):
Maybe the shipping cost was too much.

shipping is a cost of doing business - so you would agree then that 'costs' are important to a business when they decide where to manufacture goods?

CORRECT ^^^^^^^^^^^^

its sad I have to walk BL through this. taxes come off of the bottom line, like any other cost (labor, materials, overhead, distribution, etc). when the CODB is more beneficial to the company here in america they will do business here (just like Honda and many other companies are doing). when the CODB is lower elsewhere then that is where they will go, not here. you want to CREATE more american jobs then lure more foreign investment here in the US by lowering corporate taxes... make it more cost effective to produce goods on our soil. you could always pass a law lowering american worker wages - that may help as well - but I think we all would agree that's not an acceptable way to approach business growth.

Posted by moy23 on 6/6/2015 9:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2015 8:44:00 PM (view original):
Maybe the shipping cost was too much.

shipping is a cost of doing business - so you would agree then that 'costs' are important to a business when they decide where to manufacture goods?

Of course costs matter. But corporate tax rates don't impact hiring decisions.

The people introduce the above as our first piece of evidence ^^^^^^^^^^

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2015 10:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 6/6/2015 9:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2015 8:44:00 PM (view original):
Maybe the shipping cost was too much.

shipping is a cost of doing business - so you would agree then that 'costs' are important to a business when they decide where to manufacture goods?

Of course costs matter. But corporate tax rates don't impact hiring decisions.

Is that claim based on your extensive experience in high-level corporate management?

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2015 10:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 6/6/2015 9:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2015 8:44:00 PM (view original):
Maybe the shipping cost was too much.

shipping is a cost of doing business - so you would agree then that 'costs' are important to a business when they decide where to manufacture goods?

Of course costs matter. But corporate tax rates don't impact hiring decisions.

But it does impact where a business builds a factory or an assembly plant which DOES impact hiring decisions. If I choose to build a factory in China I hire Chinese employees, not Americans. Surely you know this already.

Iceland, while small... is on pace for a 2% unemployment rate. If you know nothing about Iceland understand this. They have one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the world and they were hit harder than most in the 2008 financial crisis because of how risky their banks were. They also let their banks fail rather than prop them up as 'too big to fail'. - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-01-27/let-banks-fail-becomes-iceland-mantra-as-2-joblessness-in-sight

Posted by moy23 on 6/6/2015 11:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2015 10:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 6/6/2015 9:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2015 8:44:00 PM (view original):
Maybe the shipping cost was too much.

shipping is a cost of doing business - so you would agree then that 'costs' are important to a business when they decide where to manufacture goods?

Of course costs matter. But corporate tax rates don't impact hiring decisions.

But it does impact where a business builds a factory or an assembly plant which DOES impact hiring decisions. If I choose to build a factory in China I hire Chinese employees, not Americans. Surely you know this already.

Regardless of the tax rate, it will always be cheaper to hire Chinese workers. Companies that can build overseas already do and will continue to.

Again, we could lower the corporate tax rate to zero but it won't increase hiring unless demand increases.

Posted by bad_luck on 6/7/2015 1:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 6/6/2015 11:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2015 10:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 6/6/2015 9:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/6/2015 8:44:00 PM (view original):
Maybe the shipping cost was too much.

shipping is a cost of doing business - so you would agree then that 'costs' are important to a business when they decide where to manufacture goods?

Of course costs matter. But corporate tax rates don't impact hiring decisions.

But it does impact where a business builds a factory or an assembly plant which DOES impact hiring decisions. If I choose to build a factory in China I hire Chinese employees, not Americans. Surely you know this already.

Regardless of the tax rate, it will always be cheaper to hire Chinese workers. Companies that can build overseas already do and will continue to.

Again, we could lower the corporate tax rate to zero but it won't increase hiring unless demand increases.

You are making a huge leap there.... How do you KNOW that? There are so many factors at play. For instance, Chinese wages are increasing while ours are stagnant. Gas prices fluctuate which plays a role in shipping costs. Proximity is a huge factor... The US is the #1 consumer of goods in the world so it would make sense to manufacture here if the price was right. We don't have to be the the lowest corporate taxes in the world but we should be competitive... Currently we are the highest corporate tax in the world.

Also - Your last sentence is clearly false. While demand plays a role in the decision process... It is not the only factor. In fact I posted this earlier from whitehouse.gov...

"In the 2008-09 recession and subsequent recovery, employment at U.S. affiliates was more stable than overall private-sector employment. As a result, U.S. affiliates’ share of total U.S. manufacturing employment rose from 14.8 percent in 2007 to 17.8 percent in 2011."

Demand most certainly went down in 2008 yet foreign companies grabbed a larger share of the US market during the 'worst recession since the great depression'. Demand was the same for everyone in this scenario yet it was US employers that had larger reductions in their workforce. Certainly that proves there are other factors than just demand at play here.

Again - you already know all of this if you've ever taken any economic/accohnting classes.

THE GREAT DUBYA DEPRESSION

I know it because the corporate tax rate doesn't impact how expensive it is to hire an employee. Hiring an employee costs X if the corporate tax rate is 1%. Hiring and employee still costs X if the corporate tax rate is 90%.

If you are saying that corporate tax rates impact whether or not a business chooses to exist in the U.S., I absolutely agree. But that wasn't your original argument. Your original argument was that we should cut corporate taxes to encourage companies to hire MORE employees. Which doesn't make sense.